Boston Crashes Out

Neil Barrett (00:03.834)
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the run out. I am Neil Barrett. He is Brandon Hooten. We had an incredible final weekend of the regular season this weekend in Boston. The cannons crashed out, the chaos make the championship series for the first time ever. And the archers get the number one pick the hard way. But before we get into all of that, Brandon, you weren't with us last week for reasons and we don't

whatever. But there was some news that we didn't get to talk about last week from the week prior. If you want to fill everyone in.

Brandon Hooten (00:44.75)
If you're referring to Me getting hired by the PLL to shoot that that was a that did occur that did occur is It was cool. It was a very Positive stressful is the way I would put it like it was just it was a lot to do It's kind of funny like you know what happens if you're in it but you don't actually see it happening and so like to be on the other side of that and be like in the meetings and

Neil Barrett (00:45.638)
referring to me getting hired by the PLL to shoot that. That is what I'm referring to. was cool. was very positive, stressful is the way I would put it. Like, it was just, it was a lot to do. It's kind of funny, like you know what happens if you're in it, but you don't actually see it happening. And so like to be on the other side of that and be like in the meetings and

Brandon Hooten (01:14.062)
You know, there's like things you hear that like you can't tell anybody obviously and like that type of thing. So it was, it was fun. Um, was cool just seeing like start to finish, like guys getting off the bus into, okay, we're doing warmups and now we're doing this, we're doing that. And, know, kind of coordinating with everybody. So shout out to them, um, and Nick Arati for giving me a chance. It was fun. I will at some point post those photos. I'm just kind of behind right now. So I'm just.

Neil Barrett (01:14.246)
You know, there's like things you hear that like you can't tell anybody obviously and like that type of thing. So it was, it was fun. Um, was cool just seeing like start to finish, like guys getting off the bus into, okay, we're doing warmups and now we're doing this and we're doing that. And, know, kind of coordinating with everybody. So shout out to them, um, and Nickerati for giving me a chance. It was fun. I will at some point post those photos. I'm just kind of behind right now. So I'm just.

No, it's it's it's funny because The last episode you were on you told me That it had happened, but we obviously we didn't want to talk about it at that point But it was just funny to like like I'm one of the only people that knows this and then Everyone was seeing you on TV and being like wait Brandon's on the side lights Brandon was on TV a lot

Brandon Hooten (01:42.71)
At some point they'll be posted up there, but...

Brandon Hooten (02:06.786)
Yeah. Yeah. I think you were, you were one of like in lacrosse space. mean, one of, think three people that like knew that I told and then out of nowhere in our group chat, Michael Harrison sent that photo after the outlaws game winner and he tagged me in it. And I was like, I don't even know how you know what I look like from that far away, but he did. so yeah, I didn't, I didn't really put it out there cause I was just kind of like,

Neil Barrett (02:11.558)
I think you were, you were one of like in the lacrosse space. mean, one of, think three people that like knew that I told. And then out of nowhere in our group chat, Michael Harrison sent that photo after the outlaws game winner. And he tagged me in it. And I was like, I don't even know how you know what I look like from that far away, but he did. Um, so yeah, I didn't, I didn't really put it out there because I was just kind of like, just attending to my business, but.

Brandon Hooten (02:37.794)
just attending to my business, yeah, I heard from a lot of people that I was on TV quite a bit. So that's kind of funny.

Neil Barrett (02:40.102)
Yeah, I heard from a lot of people that I was on TV quite a bit So did you not want to jinx it? Is that? Was that it was that a thought process at all? Or was it just like? No, I just I don't like attention really like if that makes sense. It's oddly enough. I'm in an But like I just was like, you know, this is it was almost like I'll talk about after the fact Yeah, for sure cuz it's at the end of the day like it's I would have been there anyway doing it. It's just

Brandon Hooten (02:48.334)
No, I just... I don't like attention really, like, if that makes sense. It's... oddly enough, I'm in an attention-based industry, I recognize that, but, like, I just was like, you know, this is... It was one of those things, like, I'll talk about after the fact, like I'm doing now, because it's... at the end of the day, like, it's... I would have been there anyway doing it, it's just a matter of now my stuff is seen... being seen on PLL socials, so that was cool, like, seeing in-between games, like, looking at Twitter and Instagram.

Neil Barrett (03:08.878)
A matter of now my stuff is seen being seen on PLL socials. So that was cool. Like seeing in between. Yeah. It's like looking at Twitter and Instagram and you know, being like, that's, that's my photo. And like, even like throughout the week when you see stuff that I'm like, why didn't they post that? And then you start seeing posts later on come out and it's like, okay. They were saving it for that. So I believe Kyle posted you, you had the one of Manny diving, right? The one where he got killed by

Brandon Hooten (03:17.422)
You know, be like, oh, that's, that's my photo. And like, even like throughout the week when you see stuff that I'm like, oh, why didn't they post that? And then you start seeing posts later on come out and it's like, oh, okay. They were saving it for that. So it was cool.

Brandon Hooten (03:33.23)
The one where he got killed by what's his name? Jack DiBenedetto?

Neil Barrett (03:36.666)
What's his name? Yeah. unfortunately it's like this really cool photo of him like diving across the goal, but the ball is like behind him over here. It's like, yeah, he he didn't score that. He got lit up. It was, was, that was one of those when I got it. And I was like, I was like, I'm so glad I was ready for that. Cause he got just levitated off the ground.

Brandon Hooten (03:45.27)
Yeah, he... He got lit off,

It was it was that was one of those when I got it I was like I was like I'm so glad I was ready for that cuz he got just Levitated off the ground and you know, but

Neil Barrett (04:03.428)
Yeah, well, it looked cool, even if and the photo looks cool, even if he didn't score, that would have made it like this much cooler. But it was still a really, really cool photo. Sounds like it was a really fun experience. And it was it was cool to see you like with the PLL like. Photo photographer vest on and everything and like literally it was so OK.

Brandon Hooten (04:27.586)
Yeah, it was like literally it was so okay. I'm gonna tell a story. I was so embarrassed It was funny and happy the same time but so like the Rough Riders had this massive section like I'm talking like the entire thing is them and Obviously like I know them all pretty well. And so the first day I forget what I was doing like pretty much I just like get grabbing some last-minute shots before the face-off and they start chanting my name like just five of them and I was like, haha, you know

Neil Barrett (04:32.463)
a tough story. I was so embarrassed. It was funny and happy at same time. But so like the Rough Riders had this massive section. Like, I'm talking like the entire thing is them. And obviously, like, I know them all pretty well. And so the first day, I forget what I was doing, like, I was just like, grabbing some last minute shots before the face off. And they start chanting my name, like just five of them. And I was like, haha, embarrassing, but whatever. The second day, even more people came because it's a Saturday.

Brandon Hooten (04:57.664)
Embarrassing but whatever the second day even more people came because it's a Saturday and I'm doing the same thing, but I'm like next to Was the I was covering the atlas that morning so like Rough riders were right here. Atlas is right in front of them Just you know snapping away and all of a sudden everyone at once just started chanting be who be who be who like the entire I was just like I was like, please stop like let me just I wanted to just shrivel up and die like I was like this is so

Neil Barrett (05:02.758)
and I'm doing the same thing, but I'm like next to, I was covering the Atlas that morning. like Roughriders were right here, Atlas was right in front of them. Just snapping away and all of a sudden everyone at once just started chanting, be who, be who, be who. I was just like, was like, oh, please stop. Like, let me just, I want to just shrivel up and die. Like, I was like, this is so, so embarrassing. Of course, like all the players are like, what is happening? Like, you know, I'm just trying to take photos. Like, but.

Brandon Hooten (05:26.24)
So embarrassing, right? Of course, like all the players are like, what is happening? Like, you know, I'm just trying to take photos, like, but it was cool, but it was definitely like embarrassing at the same time.

Neil Barrett (05:32.422)
It was cool, but it was definitely like embarrassing at the same time. All right. Before we move on to the Boston, though, we got to we got to ask, what was it like being there, especially I know I know you had to be a little bit more neutral than than perhaps you would have been, but still still an outlaws fan and seeing that that incredible overtime winner being there in Denver with that that crowd. What was that like?

Brandon Hooten (06:01.784)
Crowd pop was insane first off for only having, you know, having a stadium that only has one set of stands like that it was loud. It was awesome. but like the whole overtime period before it happened, like seeing them go back and forth, I had a great view at one point of, I don't know, maybe it was Jeff T or someone shot it, like kind of going top shelf, top corner and McNamee just stared it down and like seeing that and then go the other way and then have a Jared finish it.

Neil Barrett (06:01.968)
Crowd pop was insane first off for only having, you know, having a stadium that only has one set of stands. Like it was loud. It was awesome. but like the whole overtime period before it happened, like seeing them go back and forth, I had a great view at one point of, I don't know, maybe it was Jeff T or someone shot it, like kind of going top shelf, top corner and McNamee just stared it down and like seeing that and then go the other way and then have the Jared finish it.

Brandon Hooten (06:31.436)
like he did, it was one of those that like I was ready to run on the field. And so when it crossed, I was just like, that was insane. And I just booked it. And you just have like, I have a photo of Pat Cav getting crushed in this pile, just of dudes jumping up and like, yeah, it was crazy. The fans were great. It was also just, I think cool that it happened the second day after the loss the first day for the fans to kind of have something to be excited about.

Neil Barrett (06:31.61)
Like he did, it was one of those that like, was ready to run on the field. And so when it crossed, I was just like, that was insane. And I just booked it and you just have like, I have a photo of Pat Cav getting crushed in this pile, just of dudes jumping up and like, yeah, it was crazy. The fans were great. It was also just, I think cool that it happened the second day after the loss of the first day for the fans to kind of have something to be excited about.

Brandon Hooten (06:59.31)
Obviously then the players were excited to like sign out of grass and stuff. yeah, it was after being in Utah the week prior seeing their crowd. I was pretty pleased with how Denver showed out too.

Neil Barrett (06:59.814)
and obviously then the players were excited to like sign on the grass and stuff. So yeah, it was after being in Utah the week prior, seeing their crowd, was, I was pretty pleased with how Denver showed out too. Yeah, actually that's a, that's a really good transition into Boston. was at the games in Boston this weekend and there were, we looked it up because my wife and I were sitting down in the, top shelf club thing.

that's like on the field. And I just. Just wondered what she thought, and I said, hey, how many people you think are up there in the stands right now? And she was like, oh, I don't know, maybe maybe four or five grand. And I got really curious because I didn't know off the top of my head. And that stadium at Harvard holds just over 30,000 people. And I was like, OK, see, that changes things because.

I mean, almost that that one whole side and there's three sides and almost that whole side was full. And so you're like, man, that's, that's probably closer to 10,000 people that are there. but the first night that I was there, I went alone because my, my wife works until about seven 30 or so is when she normally gets home and the, you know, the first game is at six, an hour and a half away in Boston. So, I went by myself and I was sitting, our seats were actually like front row.

of the stadium, kind of off into one of the corners. And I was sitting there watching and I was like, I don't know what's going on, but something about this feels so high school to me. Like it just feels like such a lower level than it did like when I was in Charlotte or when I've been to, you know, the championship games or something. And I, I realized on that second day how much I think it was the fact that even though there's a, there's a pretty substantial crowd there, it doesn't

feel like it as much. I mean, it does, but it, but it doesn't. And I was like, oh man, it's so funny to not funny, but like, it's so strange to come off of specifically Denver and Utah. And even, even a little bit Chicago the week before that, uh, where you had these somewhat smaller venues that they were able to really like pack out compared to, you know, a 30,000 seat stadium that

Neil Barrett (09:26.32)
that while they're getting a pretty good crowd, know, more than, more than Utah and Denver are getting just even if only because they can fit more, you know, Denver holds what 2000 ish, something like that. Something. And they do Utah's around like seven as well. I thought it was like four, but either way, either way, either way. It was just like, I feel like I'd rather have

Brandon Hooten (09:39.102)
and a half or three something like that and I think Utah's around like seven as well.

Neil Barrett (09:56.102)
a two to four 7,000 seat stadium that was completely packed and like feel that pulse than a 30,000 seat stadium that has 10,000 people in it. And the Boston crowd is great. And I think from the field, you can really feel it, but it's a different thing when you're in the crowd and you can also feel it. So yeah, I, I've, I've really wondered what your experience was.

Especially being like down on the field, which I know you you normally are in Denver because whether you're working for the PLL or not, you're usually shooting the game. So, yeah, no, I just it was such a different kind of feeling it felt like this weekend compared to the especially the previous two where those those two crowds were just all in. But let's let's go a step farther and acknowledge that.

Boston is also all in on the cannons. You know, we hear that, that thing every week online about home team, home cities don't matter. And it's just such a funny comment to hear coming off of the, those last three weekends of the season where clearly home teams matter. And those, those people are invested in their team now to the point where I almost think that I don't even want to say almost. I think that it's,

It's kind of been a detriment to the PLL in a way, because when those home teams are not playing, the interest level in the stands goes down pretty significantly. anyway, for sure, for sure. There's nothing you can do about it, but you could definitely see like, especially last week in Denver, I don't know how it was this weekend, but there was still probably 75 % of the stands failed for that.

Brandon Hooten (11:36.591)
Yep. Which is expected. It's, you know, there's nothing you can do about it, but you could definitely see, especially last week in Denver. I don't know how it was this weekend, but there was still probably 75 % of the stands filled for that Wipps-Redwoods game on Saturday night, but it was very clear, like, we're only here because we bought the homecoming pass or, you know. Granted, I'll give them credit, there were a few fans that were very passionate chanting for the Woods and Wipps, but it-

Neil Barrett (11:52.026)
Wips Redwoods game on Saturday night, but it very clear like we're only here because we bought the homecoming pass or right, right. Granted, I'll give them credit. There were a few fans that were very passionate chanting for the woods and whips, it like you're saying it's one of those is just like home teams not playing. Yeah. Well, and, to be again, completely honest, the previous method before they had the home teams, you would still get the

Brandon Hooten (12:05.302)
Like you're saying, it's one of those that's just like home team's not playing.

Neil Barrett (12:21.594)
you know, half of the crowd wouldn't necessarily care about the teams that were playing. It just was more kind of like spread out evenly because there wasn't a home team. So you just kind of had your team and you cheered for them. And then when they weren't playing, you, you weren't as into the game necessarily. So it, it, it's kind of six and one half a dozen of another. And I apologize if that's not an idiom that, that people recognize. I

It's I guess a southern one. guess. I don't know. I know every time. OK, at least over here. OK, every time I say it up here, people look at me like, what are you talking about? I had to explain it to my wife and she thought I was a lunatic even after I explained it to her. So but yeah, no, it's it's funny. I I said it once in a meeting at work and everyone was like, what? And I had to be like.

Brandon Hooten (12:52.204)
I recognize it, so you're good at least over here.

Brandon Hooten (13:05.624)
That's funny.

Neil Barrett (13:13.73)
yeah, you guys don't know what that means. You guys have never heard and everyone's like, no, we've never heard that before. So anyway, let's get into some of the games. Let's start with the Redwoods and Cannons game. The. Cannons home team, unfortunately. Did it did a lot to try and win this game, but did not win, ultimately losing 18 to 17.

Brandon Hooten (13:18.574)
That's funny

Neil Barrett (13:43.312)
to the California Redwoods that earned the Redwoods a spot in the playoffs. Which, I gotta admit, coming into it I wasn't sure they were gonna do.

Brandon Hooten (13:57.027)
I don't think most, well, I won't say most, there's a fair crowd of Woods fans, but I think a lot of people probably were thinking that Boston would come out game one and, you know, they're playing for their home fans. They should win that game theoretically. But I mean, that data be a goalie. Tell you what, both goalies under 40%. You know, it just felt like both teams, they were in a rhythm, but they weren't at the same time.

Neil Barrett (13:57.222)
don't think most well, I won't say most there's a there's a fair crowd of Woods fans but I think a lot of people probably were thinking that Boston would come out game one and You know, they're playing for their home fans. Yeah should win that game theoretically But I mean bad data big Oli tell you what? both goalies under 40 % You know It just felt like both teams They were in a rhythm, but they weren't at the same time

Brandon Hooten (14:26.216)
And was just like anything they shot went in and like defenses were just struggling from start to finish.

Neil Barrett (14:26.346)
And it was just like anything they shot went in and like defenses were just struggling from start to finish. Yeah. Yeah. I I thought that was, that was the main takeaway I think for me was just how bad the two defenses are, are playing at least right now. I think they, they at least should be capable of playing a lot better than they are, but they just

They just are not playing well at all right now. And both goalies are just awful. know, middle of the season, people were talking about. Whichever cursed, which one is it? Connor, Colin, dang it, I always get it wrong. Colin cursed. They were talking about him being that next guy kind of behind Liam and Dabur and.

Brandon Hooten (15:11.342)
Collin. Collin.

Neil Barrett (15:25.254)
The last few weeks, he's just been awful. And some of that's not on him. Some of that is his defense. There's not a whole lot he can do with some of these shots that are going in, but it's crazy when Chase Erlen is definitely heading into this game is going to be looked at as kind of the worst of the two goalies. And he finishes the game at 39 % and Colin cursed.

was worse than him. Yep. mean, pretty much from Chicago weekend up to now, Boston's defense has left cursed out to dry. Yeah. And like, absolutely. I was thinking about this this week too. It is a fine line between like giving a goalie.

Brandon Hooten (15:56.985)
Yep. I mean, pretty much from Chicago weekend up to now, Boston's defense has left Kershaw to dry. And like, I was thinking about this this week too. It is a fine line between like giving a goalie.

you know, credit, for lack of better term, of letting goals in versus saying, hey, his defense isn't helping him out. Cause there is like a push and a pull of like, you need both to go together. But there are so many plays that like, even in this game where, I mean, I think the first goal of the game, like Chris Cav just wide open, like he's just in the ocean, just, you know, feel, please shoot it at, and it's like, you're expecting your goalie to save a shot from 15 feet out when you don't even attempt to get a stick out there. And, and,

Neil Barrett (16:13.254)
you know, credit for lack of a better term of letting goals in versus saying, Hey, his defense isn't helping him out. Cause there is like a push and a pull of like, need both to go together. there's so many plays that like, even in this game where, mean, the, I think the first goal of the game, like Chris Cav just wide open, like he's just in the ocean, just, know, feel, please shoot it. And it's like, you're expecting your goalie to save a shot from 15 feet out when you don't even attempt to get a stick out there.

Brandon Hooten (16:42.816)
Same thing was happening with California outside of Brian Tevlin. the rest of that defense, just felt like it was like they were just playing offense the entire time. And in a game like for this, like for Boston, like they needed this one. I mean, so did California obviously, but it's just like of all the times that led up 18 goals, like this wasn't the game to do it.

Neil Barrett (16:42.936)
Same thing was happening with California outside of Brian Tevlin. Like the rest of that defense, just felt like it was like they were just playing offense the entire time. and in a game for this, like for Boston, like they needed this one. I mean, so did California obviously, but it's just like of all the times that led up 18 goals, like this wasn't the game to do it. Yeah. Yeah. No, the, the, that push pool that you talk about, that's the, that's what I call the Jack and Canon effect because

You remember Jack and Cannon for the Atlas was just insane. I compare him a lot in my soccer brain to David De Gea, who used to play for Manchester United, and he just he was the best shot stopper I think I've ever seen, like just. Could save everything and.

Jack and can I used to always compare to him because I thought Jack and Cannon could just save everything. But at some point that that defense in front of him was just so bad that it's like, yeah, I can, I can save just about everything except for when guys are just standing on the crease, just like dunking over me. Like what am I supposed to do in that situation? And both of these goalies, I think suffer a lot from

Maybe maybe they aren't Jack and cannon in that they can they they're just exceptional shot suppers, but they are they're above average goalies When you have a half decent defense in front of them and just neither of them are getting that level of support whatsoever

the, big, I guess, offensive story in this game is, was Chris Kavanaugh. Obviously, he had six points on four goals and two assists. I, we have talked about him sort of fading, I think a little bit. one thing we should probably mention, we are going to not spend a lot of time talking about awards this week because we're going to do it all.

Neil Barrett (18:57.88)
next week. But suffice it to say, many, many people have put him in the conversation after this game. And one of the reasons why I wanted to delay the conversation was so that we didn't have any kind of like emotional reactions to this one game. And we could actually kind of like process things and dig a little deeper and have like a more thoughtful and informed

conversation about the season in its totality rather than this six points. However, it was a very impressive performance from Chris Kavanaugh and you can't really take anything away from him. I'm wondering again, we won't get into the rookie of the year conversation, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are on whether or not he was the steal of the draft.

Neil Barrett (20:01.254)
For those listening, he's thinking hard. I don't know. It's hard. It's hard to do that type of thing in this league specifically because each round is eight picks. So it's like the chances of you like in the NFL, there's many opportunities for you to really find a steal that you're like, wow, we overlooked this guy 32 times, five times. You know what saying? Whereas this is like he was what the 11th 10th pick something like that. Like it wasn't like he, you know,

Brandon Hooten (20:05.506)
I don't know, it's hard to do that type of thing in this league specifically because each round is eight picks. So it's like the chances of you, like in the NFL, there's many opportunities for you to really find a steal that you're like, wow, we overlooked this guy 32 times, five times that, you know what I'm saying? Whereas this is like, he was what, the 11th, 10th pick, something like that. Like it wasn't like he, you know, no one knew what was going to happen with him, which is why I'm hesitant to say he's a steal.

Neil Barrett (20:30.694)
No one knew what was going to happen with him, which is why I'm hesitant to say he's the steel. Cause I think we all like kind of knew he would be serviceable. Did we think he was going to put up 37 points hand up? did not. So I'm not going to sit here and be like, knew this whole time, but I don't know that I can label him like steal the draft just cause we knew kind of what we were getting. But I think he's like a very welcome surprise, especially in that offense, considering that coming into the season, I think we all kind of are like, they're going to be bottom two or three.

Brandon Hooten (20:34.094)
Because I think we all kind of knew he would be serviceable. Did we think he was going put up 37 points? Hand up, I did not. So I'm not going to sit here and be like, I knew this whole time. But I don't know that I can label him like steal of the draft just because we knew kind what we were getting. But I think he's like a very welcome surprise, especially in that offense, considering that coming into the season, think we all kind of are like, they're going to be bottom two or three. And not saying that.

Neil Barrett (21:00.278)
yep. And not saying that you can't still make that argument, but like, Hey, he fit in flawlessly with Malloy as well. So from that perspective on this team, I think you can make that argument. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm with you kind of across the board. have often compared it to the NFL draft and been like the entire PLL draft is the first round of the NFL draft. Like it's the same thing. So when you're really talking.

Brandon Hooten (21:02.508)
You can't still make that argument, but like, he fit in flawlessly with Malloy as well. So from that perspective on this team, I think you can make that argument.

Neil Barrett (21:28.418)
Steel. It's like, mean, I feel like I like the guys like Jackson Eicher and Ethan Roll a couple years ago, like those are the guys that are the real steals. And obviously they're not steals of the draft because they didn't get drafted, but they're like the steals of the draft class. To me, that's that's the thing. I always think that a steal has to be

Brandon Hooten (21:31.456)
Every pick should be a steal at that point.

Neil Barrett (21:57.464)
Relative to the expectation, you know, people said TJ Malone was the steal of the draft last year and I was I was always like that's that feels so crazy to me that that that person could be labeled the steal of the draft because Because the whole time that the draft is going on we're like Why is nobody taking TJ Malone? Like he was a first-round talent like it doesn't make any sense why he fell to the third round so

Brandon Hooten (22:26.35)
So that was Sam King this year, I'd argue.

Neil Barrett (22:26.502)
That was I always here. I'd argue. Yes, I would absolutely argue with that. I argue that the same thing with Sam King is like Sam King was a first round talent who for no reason, you know, it's not like, you know, people point to like Shador Sanders and stuff. And it's like, OK, I'm not saying I agree with it, but like I can understand the thought process of like he's he comes with.

baggage or, know, maybe they didn't think he was quite as talented playing at Colorado and, know, whatever there's some, there's some logic there that I can sort of understand Sam King, TJ Malone, these guys, they fall down the rankings for no reason, no reason whatsoever. Jackson Eicher. can, you could maybe make the argument of military service obligations have burned teams in the past.

And so they didn't want to make the commitment to a guy that may not be able to play after one year. So I, I don't know. I really struggle with the idea that Chris Kavanaugh, any Kavanaugh for that matter was a steal in the draft. I know, I know people like to make the argument. Well, it's about value. And I'm like, yeah, but you knew, like you said, maybe you didn't quite know he was going to be 37 points good.

But you knew he was gonna be a Kavanaugh, like, come on. So. I will say, I forgot to mention earlier, I got to meet him prior to the end of the weekend. I did an event, very nice. Him, Pat, Brennan, all very nice. Just... All very nice. Did you... I'm assuming not. But did you... It would have been cool if you did, especially being the local kid.

Brandon Hooten (23:50.083)
Yup. Yup. I will say, I forgot to mention earlier, I got to meet him prior to the end of the weekend. I did an event. Very nice. Him, Pat, Brendan, all very nice. Just, just throwing that out there. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (24:16.325)
get to do the Broncos training camp thing with them? I'm assuming not. Oh man, that would have I was at my day job and I was eating my lunch and I was like, what is this? And there they all are. Just at Broncos camp. you're oh that's nice. I'm right here. I should have asked. I should have been like, can I try to on? But yeah. Jeez. Also worth noting.

Brandon Hooten (24:20.302)
No, I did not, unfortunately, no. I was at my day job and I was eating my lunch and I was like, what is this? And there they all are, just at Broncos camp. was like, oh, that's nice. That's nice. I should have asked. I should have been like, can I tag along? But yeah.

Neil Barrett (24:44.684)
Asher Nolting's four points in this game. I'll talk more about him after we talk about the second game, but. As much as we say, he struggled at the beginning of the season, he really kind of. Turned into the Asher that we have known, especially in the second half of the season. And again, like I said, I'll talk about him more, but I did want to point out that he had four points in this game. And like you said.

The Canon scored 17 points. You would you would expect that that would be enough to win any lacrosse game. yet it wasn't. So. That's twice they've lost a game like that, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Three weeks. Yes. I think. Yeah. Yeah. So just just a crazy, crazy thing. Let's move on to the Friday night game.

Brandon Hooten (25:26.774)
Insane. That's twice they've lost a game like that by the way. Same score in what three weeks? Think it was?

Neil Barrett (25:42.15)
With the Redwoods win, the archers were already officially out of the playoffs, but would secure the number one pick with a loss in this game, which of course in this league means that they won the game outscoring the chaos four to one in the fourth quarter to come from behind and win 11 to 10 this game.

man, I'm not a chaos fan, but I am from North Carolina. So there is a little bit of there's a there's a small piece of my heart that goes to them. And it was just like it just felt like they were on cruise control and they were just going to like cruise to this when the archers looked like they have looked more or less all season, kind of inept. And then all of sudden it was like, no, we can we can play. And the chaos just forgot we want to.

We want to talk about hockey teams. This was a hockey team performance right here.

Brandon Hooten (26:39.702)
I mean, they really only played two good quarters, if I'm being honest. They didn't even play the third. Like, they... I thought they would have played harder just for standings and like, point differential there, but for whatever reason, the archers decided that they, at the time, did not want the number one pick. They just were playing like, for pride, I guess. It was just like... At some point, I was just like...

Neil Barrett (26:40.048)
mean, they really only played two good quarters, if I'm being honest. They didn't even play the third.

Neil Barrett (26:48.452)
I thought they would have played harder just for standings and like point differential there, but for whatever reason the archers decided that they at the time did not want the number one pick. It just were playing like for pride, I guess. It was just like, at some point I was just like, are they really trying right now? Like, you know, you could just, just, just take your off the gas for like two minutes of this game and.

Brandon Hooten (27:08.706)
Are they really trying right now? you know you could just... Just take your off the gas for like two minutes of this game and get that number one pick, lose by one, whatever it is. But I applaud them for, you know, playing it hard, Dean's Highway. But... I mean, they didn't even dress as face-off artists for this game. They had Bill Pederson take nine of them, at least. You know, Macko Keefe, I thought, finally, finally a Macko Keefe game.

Neil Barrett (27:17.21)
Get that number one pick lose by one, whatever it is, but I applaud them for for you know, playing it hard Dean's Highway but I Mean they didn't even dress as face-off artists for this game. They had both Peter Pederson take nine of them at least You know Mac O'Keefe'Keefe. I finally finally a Mac O'Keefe'Keefe game fantastic I felt like the car feels only at two points, but I felt like he looked better over absolutely it was

Brandon Hooten (27:38.307)
fantastic. I felt like, Connor feels only had two points, but I felt like he looked better overall. was, get me wrong, I love seeing Sam King play well, but it was such a delightful sight to not have to have him take over the game and, you know, go win the game for them. So that was cool, but.

Neil Barrett (27:47.098)
Don't be wrong. love seeing Sam King play well, but it was such a delightful site to not have to have him take over the game. Yeah. And you go win the game for them. It's one. It's one thing when you see like the Carolina Chaos rookies, because those guys have to be the guys that take over games and win. But in this offense, Sam King should not be the guy that's having to win you.

game after game after game after game. It's one thing again, again, you go to like the outlaws and it's like, okay, they've shut down Brennan, they've shut down Pat. like, yeah, JB 10's got to step up or Wiz has got to step up or something. Like that's one thing, but it's with this roster, it should not be Sam King that's winning game after game after game for you. I agree with you. I couldn't believe that it took to the last game of the season to get Mac O'Keefe going to

to get Connor looking, like you said, it was only two points, but he looked like he was actively engaged. It reminded me a lot of that, the Brennan game against the archers that we've talked about several times where he just kind of kept going at Graham Hasek where he used to would kind of recede and pull out. It reminded me of that where Connor Fields clearly wasn't scoring a whole lot, but he was causing havoc just by continuing to dodge, dodge hard.

draw slides and move the ball. So yeah, I just can't believe it took until the end of the year to get that kind of a performance out of them. It just, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Yeah. And no Shriver as well. I believe Grant Ament left the game as well, if I remember correctly. I think you're right, but I was there so I didn't hear a

Brandon Hooten (29:31.042)
Yeah, and no Shriver as well. I believe Grant Amet left the game as well, if I remember correctly.

Neil Barrett (29:42.01)
You know, didn't have a commentator telling me, but I believe that you're right. I think that occurred. So I was still like, you know, nice job winning the game without those two, but I'm hoping that this off season can kind of reset them just whether it's in Utah or not. But you know, just top to bottom this year was rough for them. I think the bright spots in this game were both goalies getting 50 plus percent, know, Brett Dobson 60%. and then obviously Shane Knoblock and Jackson Agger with four points each.

Brandon Hooten (29:42.935)
Yeah.

I think that occurred. So I was still like, you know, nice job winning the game without those two. But I'm hoping that this off season can kind of reset them just whether it's in Utah or not. But, you know, just top to bottom this year was rough for them. I think the bright spots in this game were both goalies getting 50 plus percent, know, Brett Dobson 60 percent. And then obviously Shane Knobloch and Jackson Acker with four points each as well. Josh Sawada.

Neil Barrett (30:11.244)
as well. Josh Sawada, I also think has been sneaky good this year that like no one's really talked about. Not that he's like a star yet. I'm saying I'm pushing back on credit for I'm pushing back on that. For this reason, I think he was I think he was great in this game. I think this was the first time that I felt like he played really well.

Brandon Hooten (30:13.12)
I also think has been sneaky good this year that like no one's really talked about. Not that he's like a star yet. I'm just saying I think he's better than people give him credit for.

Neil Barrett (30:38.182)
ignoring points. He's probably had a couple of three point games this season or whatever. This was the first time that I watched him and felt like he was actually in tune with with the guys that he was playing with. He was playing well. He was dodging hard with his head up and stuff. One of my bigger frustrations with him, especially especially with that with the outlaws last year, but it has carried over, I think a bit into this is how often he just

doesn't look at anyone. I don't wanna say dodges with his head down because I think that leaves the image that he's literally like this, which I don't think he does that. But like, he just doesn't even see like the whole other side of the field half the time and stuff. But this game, I thought he looked every bit of as good as he can be. I will also admit that I have a little bit of bias because I got really frustrated watching him.

play at Duke and do that and just not even look to the other side of the field. He would just get the ball and like dodge straight to the side it came from and he wouldn't even see this side of the field. Anyway, trauma, trauma, just trauma flashback right there. To your point though, yes, think Shane Knobloch looked great and Jackson Eicher has been that dude.

Brandon Hooten (31:38.435)
Yep.

Neil Barrett (32:03.458)
As much as Owen Hiltz gets the headlines, I think Jackson Eicher has been just as important for this Chaos team. And to that point, Owen Hiltz only had one point in this game. If he can find a goal in this game, because he just had the one assist, if he can find a goal in this game, they probably win it, you know? But it felt like maybe everyone was like, okay, we got to shut down Owen Hiltz. And they were able to.

presumably Graham Hasek. It's funny how when you're there, how much harder it is to like keep track of like matchups and everything. I don't know why that exactly that is. Maybe it's cause you don't get replays and no one's in your ear, you know, telling stuff, but it's so much harder to track matchups and everything. But I'm assuming it's because Graham Hasek was put on him and just kind of shut him down by and large part. But

Brandon Hooten (32:44.984)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (32:59.002)
Jackson Eicher stepped up as he has all season and

I talked about it the last time you were on that I'm not I don't think he's gonna win it not but not by a long shot in fact in fact if he's if he's the fifth person in the the finalists he's probably number five but I think he's been good enough to to be a finalist whether he will be or not we'll see but yeah so that's kind of crazy with

this result though it left both teams up in the air. The archers had to wait to find out if they would end up getting the number one pick and the chaos had to wait and see if they would make the championship series. They had already locked up a playoff spot but they were trying to see if they were going to finish top four. So the win would have secured them top four and

The loss would have secured the number one pick, but unfortunately went the other way. And so they had to wait for other results. Moving on to Saturday, the Atlas beat the water dogs in the highest scoring game in PLL history, 20 to 19. There were highlights galore in this game.

Uh, this was kind of boring at a certain point. Can't lie. I was waiting for one defensive stop. Yeah. Yeah. We wanted to, we want to talk about bad defenses. This was a mess. And part of it is these are very good offenses, but my goodness was, I'm with you. I don't mind it as much sometimes, but this, this felt like.

Brandon Hooten (34:25.42)
Yeah, got kind of boring at a certain point. Can't lie. I was waiting for one defensive stop. Just one.

Neil Barrett (34:53.126)
It was almost like a sixes game, like just up and down the field, no real defense to speak of. And it worries me for this Atlas team that I think give or give or take a goal with the outlaws are one of the top two, if not the best team in the league. It worries me that this defense consistently plays like this.

They're just all over the place all the time Yeah, well and I mean it probably doesn't help that this is the second game of the weekend that was Very high scoring like this, you know both goalies in this game again also under 40 % so it just kind of got to a point where it was like Someone's got to stop someone and it never happened and by the time we got to the end they were like, oh the water dogs can just like

Brandon Hooten (35:28.706)
Yeah, well, and I mean, it probably doesn't help that this is the second game of the weekend that was very high scoring like this. You know, both goalies in this game, again, also under 40%. So it just kind of got to a point where it was like, someone's got to stop someone. And it never happened. And by the time we got to the end, they were like, the Water Dogs can just like back off because they just need to lose by two or less. And I was like,

Neil Barrett (35:51.492)
back off because they just need to lose by two or less. And I was like, okay, like we're just, so we just like duped it out for 48 minutes just to have this ending of just like, yeah, you guys just hold the ball over there. Like I was just like, this is, you know, and it's funny too, cause like Trevor dominated the stripe, like Stathikas, this was, I don't have his numbers. I think it's had to been his worst game of the season and the Waterdog still found a way to be within a goal.

Brandon Hooten (35:56.367)
Okay, like we're just, so we just like duked it out for 48 minutes just to have this ending of just like, yeah, you guys just hold the ball over there. Like I was just like, this is, you know, and it's funny too, cause like Trevor dominated the stripe, like Stathikas, this was, I don't have his numbers. I think this had to have been his worst game of the season and the Water Dogs still found a way to be within a goal. So credit to them for at least continuing to fight. Cause there was a point where I was just like Dylan Ward's just getting.

Neil Barrett (36:20.742)
So credit to them for at least continuing to fight, because there was a point where I was just like, Dylan Ward's just getting, he's getting beat on everything. Even the ones that I would say his defense was the reason for, like, they're scoring at will. It didn't really matter what happened. And I mean, Shelly had another seven points. Jeff T had four points. Costa Bill was crazy. Dixon, Reed Bowring all of a sudden is like, this incredible. mean, people that watch the analog know Reed Bowring, but like most field people I would argue don't.

Brandon Hooten (36:25.218)
He's getting beat on everything. Even the ones that I would say his defense was the reason for like, they're scoring at will. It didn't really matter what happened. and I mean, Shelly had another seven points. Jeff T had four points. Costa Beale was crazy. Dixon, Reed Bowering all of a sudden is like this incredible. mean, people that watch the NL know Reed Bowering, but like most field people I would argue don't know a ton about him. And he's been really good the last couple of weeks.

Neil Barrett (36:50.598)
know a ton about him and he's been really good the last couple of weeks. And then Trevor obviously has three points too. Like everyone on the roster I felt like was scoring. Yeah. To answer your question, this was Stathicus' worst game by I'd say a considerable margin. Yeah. His previous worst game was 40%. It was game one against Joe Nardella and the Whipsnakes and he finished at 29 % in this game. So

Brandon Hooten (36:55.278)
And then Trevor obviously has three points too like it everyone on the roster. I felt like with score

Neil Barrett (37:20.73)
a pretty decent margin. was his worst game. But you look at the Water Dogs and you think if if we said, hey, the Water Dogs are going to score 19 points and they're going to have Liam Intiman under 40 percent, you'd be like, hey, that's that we win that game. yet Dylan Ward was worse. And I still think. I still think that

that the introduction of CJ into this offense as good as he was, and he was great in this game. I still think the introduction of CJ into this offense has completely shot it. They have lost all four games since CJ was added to this roster. And I don't think it does not appear in any way that that's gonna change in the quarterfinals the week after next.

Like I just don't know how that's going to change unless, unless they get on the field and they get to practice this coming weekend, which I don't think they do. think because it's a buy there's, there's nobody meeting. I just don't see how they're going to correct that. And it goes back to what we've been talking about all year of how

how much of a disruption is bringing CJN to this offense? And again, it's not about him, clearly he's playing great. He had six points, but. but how does that disrupt everyone else on that offense?

Brandon Hooten (38:53.591)
to back games.

Brandon Hooten (39:02.798)
I think it's mostly fine. I just... I think it's hard when you were expecting Jake Taylor to kind of still be there. And he's the guy that gets bumped for it. I personally thought they were gonna take another midi out and put Jake in this week. So then when he wasn't on the roster, I was like, this is kind of weird. And it's hard because like you're saying, he's personally performing very well. So you can't then be like,

Neil Barrett (39:02.97)
I think it's mostly fine. just, I think it's hard when you were expecting Jake Taylor to kind of still be there and he's the guy that gets bumped for it. I personally, they were going to take another midi out and put Jake in this week. So then when he was on the roster, I was like, this is kind of weird, but, it's hard because like you're saying he's, he's personally performing very well.

So you can't then be like, sorry, you got to go sit at the bench now because. Right. He put up six points, it even like, McArdle five points, Salvers three, Connor Kelly four. But it's just like, this is the one, of course, the one game that they put it all together and all play really well offensively is the game that they lose, you know, a high scoring affair. So I like you're saying I just, especially because now it's one and done, like you need to win the next game.

Brandon Hooten (39:33.283)
Sorry, you gotta go sit at the bench now, cuz he put up six points. even like, McArdle five points, Salvers three, Connor Kelly four. But it's just like, this is the one, of course the one game that they put it all together and all play really well offensively is the game that they lose a high scoring affair. like you're saying, just, especially cuz now it's one and done, you need to win the next game.

Do you pull him out now and you're like go run midi or something? I just don't know where you go from here if you're build tyranny essentially

Neil Barrett (40:02.112)
Do you pull him out now and you're like go run midi or something? I just don't know where you go from here if you're built here essentially No, I don't I feel like I know conor kelly had four points in this game But to be fair one he had one two-point goal, so you know, I feel like it's completely disrupted their midfield

for whatever reason that attack line I felt was so balanced with Sowers, McCardell and tower towers. She's Taylor and adding CJ into that mix and like disrupting that offense has just completely that attack line has just completely disrupted that offense and the midfield is where they've like suffered the worst. like, sure CJ is getting six and Kieran had five, but like

The midfield just isn't performing. Jack Hanna has been relatively quiet over the last few weeks. And that's, I feel like he's so important to what they do on that offense. When he's clicking that offense is just beautiful to watch. So I don't know. It's, it's harsh to say because it's not CJ's fault, but also

It feels like this thing could have been managed better. And this is where I think management of players and schemes and stuff comes into play. So. It'll be fine. They'll figure it out probably down the street, probably next year. And. And so that leads to two personnel questions. I'll hit the I'll hit the bigger one first. Well, I guess it kind of depends on how you define bigger.

Brandon Hooten (41:45.123)
gonna have to.

Neil Barrett (41:59.216)
How are you handling this team right now? If they go on a run and win the championship, we might have a different conversation at the end of the season. Right now, how are you handling this attack line with their five attackmen with Zed, Kieran, Michael Sowers, Jake Taylor, and CJ Kirst? How are you handling that next year?

Brandon Hooten (42:28.174)
Well, I said over the weekend, I don't know. I know I said to Kyle, I know what else I said it to. I don't think Zed's a water dog next year. Personally, I think he's traded. I said that early on he was traded, but I didn't think he'd ever shoot up for them. I think had he not torn his Achilles this year, he may have, but then it's like, I just think now they're kind of in like a youth, kind of, I think they're one vet.

Neil Barrett (42:29.434)
I said over the weekend, I don't know. I know I said to Kyle, I don't know what else I said to do. I don't think Zed's a water dog next year. Personally, I think he's traded. I said that early on, he was traded, but I didn't think he'd ever shoot up for them. I think had he not torn his Achilles this year, he may have, but then it's like, I just think now they're kind of in like a youth kind of, I think they're one vet. When I say vet, I recognize.

Brandon Hooten (42:57.154)
When I say vet, recognize Sours has been in there a few years now, but I think their one vet is McArdle. Just because I think his chemistry is already there. Like there's no point in being like, hey, sorry. And then bringing in Zed, who's never played and is coming off an injury. And so I think honestly, Zed's probably gone. And I think it's, I think it's still cursed McArdle, Sours is their starting. and then I think, I think you're gonna. I think Jake's going to end up running out of the box.

Neil Barrett (42:58.724)
Sowers has been in there a few years now, but I think their one vet is McArdle just because I think his chemistry is already there. Like there's no point in being like, hey, sorry. And then bringing in Zed who's never played and is coming off an injury. And so I think honestly, Zed's probably gone. And I think it's I think it's still cursed McArdle Sowers is there starting. What do do with Jake? I think Jake's going to end up running out of the box. OK, if I'm being honest or.

Brandon Hooten (43:26.646)
if I'm being honest. Or if they say, hey, Jake's not the best running out of the box, maybe they say, hey, curse, you're running out of the box now. And then obviously you can invert whenever you want. But I just personally have a hunch that Zed won't be a water dog.

Neil Barrett (43:28.748)
If they say, hey, Jake's not the best running out of the box, maybe they say, hey, curse, you're running out of the box now. And then obviously you can invert whenever you want. But I just personally have a hunch that Zed won't be a water dog.

I mean, I've said on the show before that logic, I can't poke holes in it. I don't necessarily agree, but I can't fault the logic behind it. You know, my thing is I think Kieran McArdle gets squeezed out, not because of his play, obviously he has been incredible. And I think he is one of the most underrated if not

the most underrated player in the league. People just do not give him credit for how good he has been. The fact that he's never been a PLL All-Star is ridiculous. And that needs to change next year. I mean, I'll say that and then he'll have like three points by the All-Star break and it'll be like, yeah, he shouldn't be in it. But if he's anything like he normally is,

We need to make sure that he's an all-star next year. It's ridiculous that he hasn't been an all-star. He's that good. And I think he is one of the most underrated, ooh, almost said overrated, most underrated players in PLL history. However, when I look at this attack line,

I think that him and CJ's skill set is almost on a, on a Venn diagram of overlapping. I don't know how to do this right here. overlapping skill sets. It's almost a perfect circle. Like they, they do so much of the same things and you're obviously going to take the younger model unless the disparity between them was

Neil Barrett (45:33.39)
so large, that you, you keep the older model, but otherwise, and I don't think it is in this situation. So I think you, you move on to the future of your program. You're like, you're not going to sit CJ for three years while you play out here, McCardell's career. So, and, and when I look at this roster, those two guys overlap so much, nobody else does what Michael Sowers does.

Nobody else does what said can do. Nobody else does what said what Jake Taylor does in and around the crease as an inside finisher. Not that they can't do some of those things, but just like as a as the total package of who they are as a player, they all are so different. And at least I would want that, and I think it has worked well for the water dogs.

Already this season, like we said, the first whatever it was, six or seven games of the season when it was Kieran McArdle, Michael Sowers and Jake Taylor, it worked so well. And I think it's because they have such a good balance and they all kind of fill the spaces of what the other other players kind of lack. The issue is, I don't know. I'm not saying anything, I don't know that he's gone or anything, but.

There are questions about whether Bill Tierney will be back. Maybe not huge shouts and the PLL is also a league that doesn't love to fire coaches. Not that they haven't, but they don't. They don't do it often.

Also, you're gonna fire Bill Tierney. I don't know but

Neil Barrett (47:21.69)
I know. That's kind of how I'm seeing it, but again, I don't have any issue with anything you said. I do just real quick before I go into my second question. Where do you see that? If you don't see him with the water dogs, where do you see that?

Brandon Hooten (47:30.764)
Yeah, I don't know.

Brandon Hooten (47:43.404)
I had no idea. Just not fairly.

Neil Barrett (47:45.158)
Just not feel anywhere, but I'm trying to think off the top of my head I mean Carolina makes It's Carolina they have Well and to that point To that point it doesn't look like they're picking up Doesn't look like they're gonna get Joey Spelina with that number one pick So they're gonna have some holes. I'll throw like a hot take one just to get people

Brandon Hooten (47:50.69)
The answer, the quick answer every time is Carolina. Every single player this year, it's been, who's it gonna go to? Carolina. You know.

Brandon Hooten (48:09.346)
Maybe, maybe I'll throw out like a hot take one just to get people talking. Maybe Utah, because of the rumors we've heard about their roster shakeup that could potentially be pretty drastic from what I've heard. I have no inside sources, so that could all be fake obviously, but I could totally see them going down a route of like, we were bad this year, we're getting a little older.

Neil Barrett (48:14.65)
Maybe Utah? Because of the rumors we've heard about their roster shakeup that could potentially be pretty drastic from what I've heard.

no inside sources, so that could all be fake obviously, but I could totally see them going down a route of like, we were bad this year, we're getting a little older, Tom has been injured every year now, back to back years. mean, you know, do we shake it up and just go young and bring in a big body like Zed where he can take his time to work back? I'm assuming Maloy and Chris Catterback, he's not going to Cali.

Brandon Hooten (48:37.474)
Tom has been injured every year now, back to back years. mean, you know, do we shake it up and just go young and bring in a big body like Zed where he can take his time to work back? Because I mean, assuming, assuming Malloy and Chris Catterback, he's not going to Cali, Denver is set, New York is set, you know, like, he just, he just got traded from Maryland. So that's a no. If he leaves Philly, that's a no.

Neil Barrett (48:55.472)
Denver's set, New York's set, you know, like, he just got traded from Maryland, so that's a no. If he leaves Philly, that's a no. So to me, it's really gonna be Carolina or Utah.

Brandon Hooten (49:05.314)
So to me, it's really going to be Carolina or Utah.

Neil Barrett (49:10.19)
And actually, like when you first said Utah, was like, that is a, that is a thing. But the more I'm thinking about it, I'm like, yeah, I mean, the, the, the rumors are again, not from any inside sources, but the rumors are that Connor Fields may be moving on that macro Keith may be moving on. And you start looking and it's like, no, they are, they, they could very well have some holes that that a Zed Williams could.

could really fill and fill well. like I said, when you said Utah and I was like, oh, I don't know. But the more I think about it, it's like, no, okay. That's actually not as wild of a take as it sounds when you first hear it. So, okay. All right. I could see it. would hate Yeah, no, for sure. I hate it. I I prefer to see him on Carolina if he leaves. I want to see him in Philly. If it was up to me, I want to see him there. But I...

Brandon Hooten (49:50.659)
Yeah, I could see it. I could see it. I would hate it. I think I prefer to see him on Carolina if he leaves. I want to see him in Philly. If it was up to me, I want to see him there. But I think that's separate from what I think will occur. And for that reason, I think he probably ends up in one of spots.

Neil Barrett (50:07.258)
think that's separate from what I think will occur. And for that reason, I think he probably ends up in one of those spots. Okay. Okay. Let's, let's move to the last question here before, so we can get into the, some of the other games. But the big question coming into this game was Dylan Ward or Matt DeLuca. We, had talked briefly about that several weeks ago.

I was of the opinion that Dylan Ward for all of his faults end goal in terms of keeping the ball out of the net. He was winning games and you can't fault him for that. And they needed to win and Madaluka for all the all the good he was doing keeping the ball out of back of the net. He was winning games.

As you have said many times this season, all streaks must come to an end and that streak came to an end this week. So you're looking at the quarterfinal game.

In two weeks, against Maryland, right? Maryland? Maryland. Against the Whipsnakes? Who are you putting in goal?

Brandon Hooten (51:13.869)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (51:28.582)
He's doing some last minute research.

Brandon Hooten (51:32.046)
Well, I was checking to see Dylan Orr hasn't played the WAPES yet.

Brandon Hooten (51:43.362)
I'm sticking with Dylan at this point.

Neil Barrett (51:43.686)
I'm sticking with deal.

Brandon Hooten (51:47.704)
Because

Neil Barrett (51:48.006)
because

Brandon Hooten (51:51.403)
He's 3-1 when he starts and finishes a game. I think, we've mentioned this a couple times, I just think he commands the defense as it currently stands a little bit better than DeLuca does. And that's not because DeLuca's a bad goalie, I just think he needs more time, like he just needs more experience, but we're kind of at a point in season where like, where it was played more recently of like...

Neil Barrett (51:51.654)
He's three and one when he starts and finishes a game. I think we've mentioned this a couple of times. I just think he commands the defense as it currently stands a little bit better than DeLuca does. And that's not DeLuca's a bad goalie. I just think he needs more time. Like he just needs more experience, but we're kind of at a point in the season where like, Wordle's played more recently of like.

Brandon Hooten (52:16.93)
I he's really only played the one game recently, because I think DeLuca played the game before, so that kind of refutes my point. But I just feel like they're going to react better. And if he comes out and plays poorly, then guess what? You have DeLuca right there, you can pull him, and then DeLuca goes in the game. But either way, they have a of defensive problems that I... It doesn't really matter who you put in goal. If your defense doesn't slide, if your defense doesn't communicate, it doesn't matter. So...

Neil Barrett (52:17.382)
I guess he's really only played the one game recently, because I think DeLuca played the game before. So this kind of refutes my point, but I just feel like they're going to react better. And if he comes out and plays poorly, then guess what? You have DeLuca right there. You can pull him and then DeLuca goes in the game. But either way, like they have a lot of defensive problems that I, it doesn't really matter who you put in goal. If your defense doesn't slide, if your defense doesn't communicate, it doesn't matter. So.

Brandon Hooten (52:46.722)
But I also mentioned early on a few weeks ago that maybe they continue to alternate and then once playoff time comes they say, DeLuca, you're the guy, we just want to keep you fresh. Which would make sense because now he has two weeks to get ready for that since Dylan Ward played this game. So really it was three weeks.

Neil Barrett (52:47.044)
But I also mentioned early on a few weeks ago that maybe they continue to alternate and then once playoff time comes, they say, DeLuca, you're the guy. We just want to keep you fresh, which would make sense because now he has two weeks to get ready for that since we played this game. So really it was three weeks.

Brandon Hooten (53:08.014)
So, I don't know.

Neil Barrett (53:08.236)
So.

So to your point Matt DeLuca played both games against the Whip Snakes. He went 63 % in the first game and the Water Dogs won. He went 64 % in the second game and the Water Dogs lost. So I don't know that that helps make a decision one way or the other. I have been on the start ward

train all year. Like I said, I think there's more to being a goalie than keeping the ball out of the net. And I think that defense does play usually this Atlas game aside. I think they do usually play better for him than for Matt DeLuca for whatever reason. However, I think now after

now that that streak has kind of ended and he's lost that game.

think and I'm not I'm not going against anyone who says otherwise, but I think I would now lean more towards Playing the guy that's better in goal especially in a playoff game I think you're gonna need someone that can keep the ball out of the back of the net and I Don't know that as I'm talking about it. I'm like I Don't know

Neil Barrett (54:44.326)
I don't know, maybe you need a defense that's organized. know, defense wins championships, right? So I don't know, man. I don't know how you make this decision. It's such a crazy thing. on every other team in the league, in every other year of this league.

Brandon Hooten (54:49.912)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (55:04.346)
the guy who had the better save percentage was the guy that was winning more games. So like, I just don't even have like a frame of reference for this game.

Brandon Hooten (55:15.245)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (55:19.869)
It's so dumb. It's so dumb. All right. I think you know what you said? You said Dylan Ward. I'll go Matt DeLuca just to be contrarian. I guess. Let's let's move on to the game incoming. I know right. Like like the people online don't think I hate Dylan Ward enough. Come on. Geez. I didn't do.

Brandon Hooten (55:32.704)
Alright, alright. Dillon Ward's Legacy Game incoming.

Brandon Hooten (55:45.166)
Hey, you did that to yourself. I'll stay out of that one.

Neil Barrett (55:49.09)
Not a damn thing. And you know it.

Anyway, moving on to the last game of the weekend, this was a win and in game. Whoever won the game would make the playoffs and the losers season would be over. It was also we focused a lot on the win and in for both of these teams, but it was also a win win game for the Whip Snakes due to the archers winning the game against the chaos the night before the whips would.

not only make the playoffs if they won, but if they lost, they would steal the number one pick from the archers. So it was a win-win game for the whips. The cannons needed to win it due to losing their first game of the homecoming. The cannons needed to win it in order to make the playoffs. And they did not. They lost 15 to eight, which

It's mind blowing because this was a seven, seven halftime game and then they got beat eight to one in the second half and lost 15 to eight and crashed out of the playoffs, which

is crazy to me. I don't know. I that I can't believe they had they had two chance. All they had to do was win one game this weekend and they would make the playoffs and they went and two and just completely crashed out. The the fun thing at the beginning of this game was the running joke that that nobody wanted Joey Spelina. Both teams that had chances to lose and grasp the number one

Neil Barrett (57:37.786)
pick both one. Nobody, nobody wanted to draft Joey Spelina. So that was interesting, but I don't know. guess let's, let's get into it. I felt so bad for that Boston crowd. They were so up for this game. They were so ready. They were so energized and loud and it was fun to be there. And then the second half just killed it. They were so dead. That's a problem that Boston's had.

Brandon Hooten (58:04.3)
Yeah, but that's a problem that Boston's had, feel like, all year. It's a two half game. You can't just play one half and then expect to win. Even in Chicago, I remember saying they were down 11-3 in the first half. I'm like, you can't be horrendous in a half. You can have a down half. There's ebbs and flows to a game, but to go from being tied 7-7 and you have momentum on your side, essentially, because you have the home crowd.

Neil Barrett (58:07.43)
feel like all year. it's a two half game. can't just play one half and expect to win. Even in Chicago, I remember saying they were down 11, three and.

You can't be horrendous in a half. You can have a down half. There's ebbs and flows to the game, to go from being tied 7-7 and you have momentum on your side essentially because you have the home crowd to then giving up eight goals to your one in the second half, you just can't win games like that. And mean, they legitimately let every single whipsnake go off. I mean, they Rob Pinal get four points in this game. Both carols played out of their minds.

Brandon Hooten (58:33.486)
to then giving up eight goals to your one, the second half. You just can't, you can't win games like that. And I mean, they legitimately let every single Whipsnake go off. I mean, they Rob Pinal get four points in this game. Both Carroll's played out of their minds. know, Nardella again, dominant the stripe. Boston, it's so funny, cause Boston was three and one. We're talking about them being...

Neil Barrett (58:50.138)
You know, Nardella again, dominant the stripe. they, like Boston, it's so funny because Boston was, you know, three and one. We're talking about them being arguably the best team in the league roster wise and all this stuff. Even when they were losing, when they were three and three, I think I still said like, I still believe in them. And then throughout the year, I just kind of went down or it's just like, it didn't matter what roster, it didn't matter if it was Colter in there, if it was Wales, it was both, if they were, you know, changing things defensively, like nothing worked. And.

Brandon Hooten (58:58.678)
arguably the best team in the league roster wise and all this stuff even when they were losing when they were three and three I think I still said like I still believe in them and then throughout the year I just kind of went down or it's just like it didn't matter what roster it didn't matter if it was Colter in there if it was Wales it was both if they were you know changing things defensively like nothing worked and this was a prime example of just like you have this opportunity on a silver platter like hey just win this one game against a team who I think most would agree

Neil Barrett (59:19.45)
This was a prime example of just like you have this opportunity on a separate platter. Like, Hey, just when this one game against a team who I think most would agree are in the bottom half of the league team wise and you get almost doubled up. Yeah. not only did you doubled up, but you let Maryland look really good every single quarter. It wasn't like they had one big quarter that one in the game every single quarter. put up three more goals. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to have to come up with a term.

Brandon Hooten (59:28.748)
are in the bottom half of the league, team-wise, and you get almost doubled up. And not only did you get doubled up, but you let Maryland look really good every single quarter. It wasn't like they had one big quarter that won them the game. Every single quarter, they put up three more goals.

Neil Barrett (59:48.838)
A hockey team is a team that only plays three, three quarters. What's a team that only plays one half? A college basketball team. him in March Madness. Yeah, because I... This game was rough and we talked about it in several of the other games, you know, they... You get five points out of Asher Nolting.

Brandon Hooten (59:55.289)
college basketball team. Men's college basketball team. Get him in March Madness.

Neil Barrett (01:00:17.418)
You expect, okay, we're going to, we're going to put up, I'm not going to say that five points for mashernolting wins you a game, but if he's got five points, the rest of that offense is clicking. No, no. Matt Campbell is the only other player that even had two points. Like that's an, that's insane with, with that roster and the guys that they have on that roster and the, the amount of points that they can put up.

for Asher Nolting to have five points and two and for one other player to even have two is insane. it's not like as good as Emma Carroll played, it's not like that defense was, you know, just shutting everybody down. This is not the archers defense. Like they're not that good.

You know, cannons only had 13 turnovers the whole game. Like I just they just weren't good at all. Back to back weeks now that they've scored zero points in the fourth quarter. Of all the quarters to play Goose Egg, the fourth is not the time to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And like they they're one of those teams that like on paper, like they should have championships with an S.

Brandon Hooten (01:01:21.782)
Yep, and it's back to back weeks now that they've scored zero points in the fourth quarter. Of all the quarters to lay a goose egg, the fourth is not the time to do it. And like they, they're one of those teams that like on paper, like they should have champion chips with an S and this happens. And I'm just like, what is happening right now?

Neil Barrett (01:01:40.806)
With an S. This happens and I'm just like, what is happening right now? To be fair, they do have championships with an S. I'm sorry, they should have PLL championships, not including champ series. We're not throwing that in there.

Brandon Hooten (01:01:49.494)
I'm sorry, they should have PLL championships, not including champ series. We're not throwing that in there.

Neil Barrett (01:01:58.566)
I mean, it is a PLL championship. No, it's not. We do got to figure out some way to like.

Brandon Hooten (01:02:01.954)
No it's not. No it's not.

Neil Barrett (01:02:10.63)
I don't know, like what is the value of the championship? Like it's cool, it's great. The championship series is always so much fun to the point where we were talking about it in the group chat before we got on here. I wanna know where they're hosting it so that I can already start like looking at hotels and flights and stuff, but they just haven't announced it. So like it's this great fun thing, but also it's the cannons aside, cause the cannons,

generally do get a good amount of their PLL regular season players. know, you're them aside, it's mostly not your your big name guys. It's sixes, obviously, which is a completely different game to the point where Jim Stagnato, we're talking about a whips game. They've never won a game. He hates he hates sixes. Did they end up making it? I'm totally blanking off the top of my head. Did they make it?

Brandon Hooten (01:03:03.725)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:11.377)
yes,

Neil Barrett (01:03:13.307)
No, are they I can't remember. Okay. California, Carolina. That's right. That's right. So good for stags making the playoffs and not making I was going to say, I feel like they might have sandbagged earlier this season because he was like, I am not doing the championship series again. All we got to do is make it into the playoffs and and that's all we need. Then we can win. We can win the championship from sixth place.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:15.5)
No they did not. It's Denver, New York, California, Carolina. So good for stags making the playoffs and not making champ series. He's probably in heaven right now.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:28.502)
Neil Barrett (01:03:42.36)
and not have to worry about the championship series. He is ecstatic right now. But yeah, we got to figure out a way to question. don't I don't.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:50.071)
But no, to answer your question, I don't really put too much stock in champ series trophies. Because you play this season, an entire season, to win the championship. That means it's the highest trophy you can earn. So to me, like, don't get me wrong, like, if you're playing champ series, play to win. Like I'm not saying to like mess around and like whatever, like play to win if you're going. But like, the people that put that as like

Neil Barrett (01:03:55.942)
champ series trophies. Because you play this season, an entire season, to win the championship. That means it's the highest trophy you can earn. So to me, like, don't get me wrong, like, if you're playing champ series, play to win. Like, I'm not saying to, like, mess around and, whatever, like, play to win if you're going. But, like, the people that put that as, well, look at their trophy case and look, look at, it's like, really? That's not, that's not even the same echelon as

Brandon Hooten (01:04:18.168)
well look at their trophy case and look look at it's like really that's not that's not even the same echelon as What these teams are about to play for here in a month? Like it's a cool thing that like gets sixes in front of people. It's extra lacrosse It's extra paychecks for everyone involved. It's a very cool event. I'm not hitting on the event, but as far as people put in like You know the utmost value on it. I'm like it's just It's not the same at all

Neil Barrett (01:04:24.836)
what these teams are about to play for here in a month. Yeah. It's a cool thing that like gets sixes in front of people. It's extra lacrosse. It's extra paychecks for everyone involved. It's a very cool event. I'm not hitting on the event, but as far as people putting like, you know, the utmost value on it, I'm like, it's just, it's not the same at all. How do you feel about, about the championship banners that were, that they had for the championship series?

Brandon Hooten (01:04:51.874)
I mean, that's fine. Like it's still a PLL event, right? And that's one that's like, at least it's separate to where like, hey, you still have to be of the top of the league. Problem I have is it's eight teams. You just have to beat out three other teams before, you know, not including yourself, so four teams to get there anyway. So it's kind of like, now I will say the one banner that's separate from the championship that I absolutely despise is the NBA in season tournament banners.

Neil Barrett (01:04:53.99)
That's fine. Like it's still a PLL event, right? And that's one that's like, at least it's separate to where like, you still have to be at the top of the league. Problem I have is it's eight teams. You just have to beat out three other teams before, you know, not including yourself, so four teams to get there anyway. So it's kind of like, now I will say the one banner that's separate from the championship that I absolutely despise is the NBA in season tournament banners. That is ridiculous.

Brandon Hooten (01:05:21.986)
That is ridiculous. There's no reason to have that. You did not win anything. Okay? You won a makeup... a fake tournament in the middle of the year. That's ridiculous. As far as champ series, at least it's separate. And it's like a thing that's, it's just between you four. You know, I don't think it should be the same size as a normal championship banner. But I have no problem with them having it.

Neil Barrett (01:05:23.686)
There's no reason to have that. You did not win anything. Okay. You want to make up a fake tournament in the middle of the year. That's ridiculous. As far as champs here, at least it's separate. And it's like a thing that's, Hey, it's just between you four. You know, I don't think it should be the same size as a normal championship banner, but I have no problem with them having it. See, I come, I, I come from soccer and like in season tournament, like

Manchester United, the season is about to start. I think it's this weekend actually. And they will be competing in four. I think it's, well, they won't be competing in four this year. Generally they are competing in about four competitions simultaneously throughout the season. So the end season thing, I don't know, the end season thing doesn't bother me, but it's also, I also get that it's a little weird in American sports because like, it's just not really a thing that we.

Brandon Hooten (01:06:10.178)
Yeah, I hate that.

Neil Barrett (01:06:22.596)
We do and they invented it last minute. know, most of the most of those like big European soccer competitions have been around for a hundred years, you know, so I get it. But putting that type of value on those types of things in my mind, I feel like it almost is like diminishing of the actual thing that like we're all playing for. And like if you win champ series, you should be excited, but it should not be the same level as when you're winning the PLL championship because

Brandon Hooten (01:06:30.71)
Yeah, it's just those types putting that type of value on those types of things in my mind I feel like it almost is like diminishing of the actual thing that like we're all playing for and like if you win champ series You should be excited, but it should not be at the same level as when you're winning the PLL championship Because you're getting to get it's like getting together with your boys for one week and you're just like all playing in a sixes tournament Like let's have some fun. Hopefully we win. It should not be like a look we're champions

Neil Barrett (01:06:49.476)
You're getting together with your boys for one week and you're just like all playing in a sixes tournament. Like, let's have some fun. Hopefully we win. It should not be like a look, we're champions because what happened in? Did you win the actual one or is this just like a makeup type of thing? You know what I mean? So like if if anyone ever says to me like, they won championships, I don't really care. Like I said, aren't you on a team like that? That I think is random dudes.

Brandon Hooten (01:06:59.736)
because what happened in... did you win the actual one or is this just like a makeup type of thing? You know what I mean? So like, if anyone ever says to me like, but they won Champs or... I don't really care. Half the teams like you said, aren't even their team.

we're picking up random dudes that are fighting for a real spot on the roster, it's just-

Neil Barrett (01:07:19.294)
that are fighting for a real spot on the brush. It's just kind of... That I think is the hard part. I don't know that anyone realistically thinks it's comparable to winning the PLL championship in September, but...

I think the real issue is it would be one thing if, if, know, the Boston cannons, well, and again, they're not the best example because they do largely take their whole team, but you know, the, the Chrome, when they won that year one, I looked at that roster this year and there were like four or today I looked at that roster for something on, on, that we were having a discussion about and they were like,

Four dudes I had never even heard of. I didn't remember that they played in the championship series for Chrome. And then there were six other guys on their roster that don't play for them anymore. It was just, I don't know. It was just- probably won't ever play in the real season.

Brandon Hooten (01:08:18.924)
Yeah. And likely probably won't ever play in, you know, the real season.

Like it's a good tryout period and it's to me, like if I'm a player, I'm treating it like, hey, this winning feeling's nice. Let's go into the off-season, the rest of the off-season and then into the season, like ready to go so we can win the real one.

Neil Barrett (01:08:28.294)
Yeah, I don't try out period and it's to me like if I'm a player I'm treating it like hey this winning feelings nice Let's go into the office see the rest of the offseason and then into the season like ready to go so we can win the real one Yeah Yeah You know it But I do think I do think it is Generally speaking a little bit harder for like the American sports mind as a whole

Brandon Hooten (01:08:43.182)
That's just a me thing.

Neil Barrett (01:08:56.73)
to not have the opinion that you were just talking about, about like, the only thing that really matters is this, is the PLL championship. And again, I'm not saying that the championship series is on that level, but it is different, I think, coming from like a European soccer mind of there are three or four things that are.

Equally important may not quite be right but are of kind of like upper echelon importance You know, I think winning your winning your domestic league is Probably number one and then it's weird because then they have like the European Continental Championship and it's like In some respects the European Continental Championship is is the bigger deal but in some respects

the domestic league, but then you also have like league cups and there are, you know, there are other things. The FAA Cup is like the oldest open cup in it's like almost 150 years old. think it is. so like there, there's a lot of prestige in that. And obviously the championship series only has, you know, we're heading into its fourth season. So, you know, but again, it's, it's a totally different thing because

because those teams you play for me, if you're a Manchester United, like starting 11 player, you're playing in all four of those. It's not. So maybe someday we'll get to a point where, you know, the New York Atlas are going to take their dominant, you know, can you imagine Jeff Tietz showing up for the sixes tournament? Like, yeah, it would go, it would go crazy, but

Brandon Hooten (01:10:39.821)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:10:44.154)
Back to the game that we were talking about. The thing I wanted to talk about a little bit was Asher Nolting. I'm sure you've seen that. I'm sure people that are listening have seen the hate for Asher Nolting this season, especially around the decision with Pat Kavanaugh, which I always go back to. First of all, the discussion itself is stupid because Pat Kavanaugh asked for the trade.

He's not he's not some martyr. He didn't get sacrificed. know that Brian Homan didn't even choose quote unquote Asher over Pat Kavanaugh. Pat Kavanaugh asked for the tray. So the conversation from the jump, I think, is stupid. But. There was there was specifically the comment this this week about.

person that was like, they really chose fat Albert over Pat Kavanaugh, which first of all, let's talk about the fact. Let's not talk about, but let's, let's address the fact, the racial undertones of calling Asher Nolting fat Albert. but, but more importantly, again, I don't think that those two things are, are connected. Number one, but also Asher Nolting has one less point than Pat Kavanaugh.

despite being on a significantly worse team, significantly worse. He also had more points in this game that we're talking about here than Pat Kavanaugh had all of last weekend in Denver.

Pac Haven, had three points last weekend. Asher in this game had five in the game Friday night. He had four for nine on the weekend. So I don't know. I just find that this whole conversation so ridiculous about like.

Neil Barrett (01:12:45.855)
Like what is it that Pat Kavanaugh would be doing on this Boston Canons team that Asher Nolting isn't?

Neil Barrett (01:12:54.948)
He's he's he's already playing with. One of the best rosters in the league, and he only has one point more than Asher. So like what what is it that what is this brain rot that is infecting the lacrosse community that. And it's not everyone, it's probably not even a majority of one, it's just this vocal minority that just drives me crazy like I don't.

I don't get it. And I will admit, got a little bit of, I got a little bit of astro bias, in the same way that you have a Also probably, but, but I don't think, I don't think this conversation is, is really about Pat Kavanaugh other than the fact that people keep being like, they should have taken Pat Kavanaugh. it's like, why? if, even if people think that like, that's fine. Like you could always say like, Hey, I prefer this over that. But there's also no guarantee that.

Brandon Hooten (01:13:30.166)
Fag pack cav buys.

Brandon Hooten (01:13:45.903)
Well, even if people think that, that's fine. You could always say, hey, I prefer this over that. But there's also no guarantee that what he's doing this year, he would do there. Is there an argument out there that would be like, hey, they have a worse roster, maybe he has more points because he has to do more? Sure. He also could have less points because he's dealing with the number one every single time. So the idea that like...

Neil Barrett (01:13:54.212)
what he's doing this year, he would do there. Could, is there an argument out there that would be like, hey, they have a worse roster, maybe he has more points because he has to do more? Sure. He also could have less points because he's not, you know, he's dealing with the number one every single time or you know what had, so like the idea that like, this is better than this, what we haven't even seen it. Like I'm not going to spend time arguing about it, which is what gets to me is like all these people get online and they start arguing about it.

Brandon Hooten (01:14:13.474)
this is better than this when we haven't even seen it. Like, I'm not gonna spend time arguing about it, which is what gets to me is like all these people get online and they start arguing about it about a true hypothetical that's like, I can't believe we did this over that. And it's like, you don't, it's not a guarantee that what you want would have worked out anyway. And Asher, to his credit, has reinvented himself in my mind with the way that he's playing to where if you're gonna let him score, he will score. But if you're gonna shut that off, he's just gonna dish the ball.

Neil Barrett (01:14:23.142)
about a true hypothetical that's like, I can't believe we did this over that. And it's like, you don't, it's not a guarantee that what you want would have worked out anyway. And Asher, to his credit, has reinvented himself in my mind with the way that he's playing to where if you're going to let him score, he will score. But if you're going to shut that off, he's just going to dish the ball at a high rate, by the way. And like, don't get me wrong, there's a few guys ahead of him in the MVP talks, but like in any other year, he's

Brandon Hooten (01:14:42.87)
At a high rate, by the way. And like, don't get me wrong, there's a few guys ahead of him in MVP talks, but like, in any other year, he'd be talked about as an MVP. So those couple of people on Twitter that like consistently just need to bring that up, I'm just like, it doesn't even matter. Like, it's not like Boston's losing because of him. Boston's losing because their defense can't stop anybody. They're losing because Colin Kurtz had a down year. They're losing because they can't win at the strength. Like, every other phase of the game for them has been bad.

Neil Barrett (01:14:51.492)
He'd be talked about as an MVP. So those couple of people on Twitter that like consistently just need to bring that up I'm just like it doesn't even matter like it's not like Boston's losing because of him Yeah, Boston's losing because their defense can't stop anybody. They're losing because Colin Kurtz had it down here they're losing because they can't win at the strike like Every other face of the game

Brandon Hooten (01:15:12.332)
So to then talk about their star attack men is... It's just so stupid.

Neil Barrett (01:15:17.894)
The guy who's sixth in the league in points. He's the problem. Yeah. Okay. Cool. he supposed to go play defense and then also play goalie and then run back and score? I just don't understand what they want him to do. Don't forget facing off. Oh yeah. He needs to, so he needs to start in middle of the field. Hopefully win, go score. You know, it's just, it's so. It's just a Braveheart game. people that choose to argue, just to argue sometimes. And I'm like, if you want to have a discussion about who you think should have been kept by Boston, that's one thing.

Brandon Hooten (01:15:21.742)
Like, is he supposed to go play defense and then also play goalie and then run back and score? I just don't understand what they want him to do. oh yeah, he needs to start in the middle of the field. Hopefully win, go score. You know, it's just, it's so... It's just people that choose to argue just to argue sometimes. And I'm like, if you want to have a discussion about who you think should have been kept by Boston, that's one thing. I will listen to those all day every day. But like, who cares?

Neil Barrett (01:15:46.598)
I will listen to those all day every day. But like, who cares? Yeah. They're out of playoffs onto next year. Deal with it. Well, you and I talked several weeks ago, like this was the perfect move for both teams. Like, I think that's the reason why when Pat Kavanaugh came and was like, hey, trade me. I think Brian Homan didn't fight it. He was like, okay, yeah, like this is going to work for all parties involved. Pat Kavanaugh got to a position where he could be

Brandon Hooten (01:15:50.978)
They're out of the playoffs on to next year, deal with it.

Neil Barrett (01:16:16.59)
Maybe not the guy, but he could be the ball carrier for sure, which I think suits his game better. The outlaws were able to get a guy that could be a ball carrier for them. Asher got.

more responsibility put on him, I guess is a good way to put it, which is better for him. They were able to bring in Will Manny and Colter Mackenzie and guys who who truly occupy that side of the field. Whereas Pat Kavanaugh was always kind of an outsider on that side of the field. And, you know, he was playing out of position because he wasn't going to take Marcus Holman's position and.

clearly he wasn't going to take Asher Nolting's position. So he was kind of being played out of position over there. But also if you kept him like, well, even if you wanted to keep him and make him that main guy, now you got to play Asher out of position or you got to play Marcus out of position, which just doesn't work. Like it was, it was the perfect scenario for all parties involved and

It has worked that way for all parties involved. It's not a, it's not like, how stupid could they have been? They they've gotten drastically worse. Like you said, they're not not winning because of Asher Nolting. He's still one of the best attack men in this league. He's still playing that way. They just, they can't do anything else. Right. honestly, all those people on my need to also understand

Brandon Hooten (01:17:54.179)
And honestly, all those people online need to also understand that like, the league is so small that when you're in a draft, a lot of times you just have to take the best player. You don't necessarily, like you don't have the time to sit there and be like, well, we need this. So let's take that. Because then if you don't take Pat, like taking Pat allowed them to get something back in return for the trade. If they don't take him, maybe they fill a hole over here. But now where does Pat end up? And is he dicing them up in the Eastern conference now? Like,

Neil Barrett (01:17:58.874)
League is so small that when you're in a draft a lot of times you just have to take the best player you don't necessarily you don't have the time to sit there and be like well we need this so let's take that because then if you don't take Pat like taking Pat allowed them to get something back in return for the trade if they don't take him maybe they fill a hole over here but now where does Pat end up and is he dicing them up in the Eastern Conference now like those are things that you have to think about like it's not it's not like Brian Holman

Brandon Hooten (01:18:23.618)
Those are things that you have to think about. Like it's not, it's not like Brian Holman, even if Brian Holman chose to trade PatKab, it's not like he was like, had some master like plan of, I need Asher over Pat. It's just like Pat was the best player available at the time. They took the best player. They realized that, hey, this is best for the player and the organization to split amicably. And that's what occurred. And then the guy that everyone hates is still playing well. So.

Neil Barrett (01:18:28.172)
Even if Brian Homan chose to trade PatKab, it's not like he was like, had some master plan of, I need Asher over Pat. It's just like Pat was the best player available at the time. They took the best player. They realized that, hey, this is best for the player and the organization to split amicably. And that's what occurred. And then the guy that everyone hates is still playing well. So, and like, it's so fun because I go back and I look at some of those guys' pages and I'm like,

Brandon Hooten (01:18:52.334)
And like, it's so fun because I go back and I look at some of those guys' pages and I'm like, not a single mention of the goaltending, not a single mention of the defense, nothing, it's always that. They find one thing and they attack it over and over. And I'm like, why don't you talk about the faceoff strike? They didn't even go 50 % in this game. But somehow it's Asher's fault. And somehow it's Brian Holman's fault. Like...

Neil Barrett (01:18:56.474)
Not a single mention of the goal tending, not a single mention of the defense. Like nothing. It's always that they find one thing and they attack it over and over. And I'm like, why don't you talk about the faceoff strike? They didn't even go 50 % in this game. Right. But somehow it's Asher's fault. Somehow it's Brian Holman's fault. Also, not for nothing. Like you said, this could have gone very much the other way if, if they did keep him. Like, are you seriously going to take the guy who's

who's been like a three year running Attackman of the Year finalist over the rookie who had 12 points. Like nobody would make that choice. If they were forced to make that decision, nobody is picking Pat Kavanaugh. They're just not. They would have a big injury concern or something with Asher or a character issue or something for you to even consider that. there's not, like Asher's, he's a good dude. He's healthy from what I...

Brandon Hooten (01:19:41.869)
Yep. There would have to be like a big injury concern or something with Asher or a character issue or something for you to even consider that. And there's not. Like Asher's, he's a good dude. He's healthy from what I have seen, like, and he's performing. So to me, it's mostly just like you're assuming that it would have worked out when if you're going to assume that you also have to then bear in mind that it could go the other way.

Neil Barrett (01:19:55.29)
have seen like, and he's, he's performing. So it, to me, it's mostly just like, you're assuming that it would have worked out when if you're going to assume that you also have to then bear in mind that it could go the other way. Cause you can't, you can't have the high of the high and not have the low of the low in a hypothetical. Right. Right. And I'm not, and I'm not at all saying that he's not going to be what he was this year, next year, but we're also talking about an Asher Nolting who has done this in this league for

Brandon Hooten (01:20:08.67)
because you can't have the high of the high and not have the of the low in a hypothetical.

Neil Barrett (01:20:24.966)
three, four years at this point versus a Pat Kavanaugh who even now has only done this one season. And again, I'm not saying he's going to not be this again, but even if you made that decision today, you'd probably still pick Asher Nolting just because he has again done it multiple seasons in a row. Now the flip side of that is that you could argue, well, Asher's done it four years. He's four years closer to

retirement than Pac Avenues or whatever. Sure. he's still young. Sure. Sure. In my opinion, some people say he's old, but. Well, and I think I think I think, yes, he's still he's still fairly young, but also I think he has he has a game that I think won't leave him with age. I compare him a lot to to John Grant Jr., maybe not necessarily that good.

Brandon Hooten (01:20:56.814)
sure, but he's still young.

It's in my opinion, some people say he's old, but...

Neil Barrett (01:21:23.994)
if you want to, you know, nitpick, but he has a similar game in that it it's not based on speed and quickness. It's it's body control and leaning into you and and just having kind of slick hands. You know, that one handed pass he had a couple of weeks ago, cross crease. You know, he does he does play the game similarly to John Grant Jr. in that, you know, if he's if he's 38, 39, 40.

I think he can still play more or less the way he plays now. you know, that also adds to the fact that that while yes, he's still relatively young, I think he also is going to play longer than most people do. I don't know why I put most in quotes. That's not what I meant to do. Anyway, let's stop talking about stupid stuff. How about that?

Let's look forward to the quarterfinal matchups in two weeks. First up, we have the Water Dogs versus the Whips. We've already talked a little bit about kind of what we would do in terms of the goalies. I'm wondering, guess, just. Who you got in this game, because. Is this one really feels like a coin flip to me, because on one hand, you know, I think the Water Dogs are probably the better

team, least on paper. But we are also talking about a Jim Stagnito whips team that I just feel like you can't ever count them out. We we just saw them last year. Make a run that we weren't expecting all the way to the championship game, even though they were they were probably in a better position last year than they were this year. But, you know, you just can't ever count them out. So. What are you thinking?

Brandon Hooten (01:23:18.55)
It's too early to tell. I don't know. Like, I his offense just put up 19 goals. 19 points, I should say. So it's like...

Neil Barrett (01:23:18.982)
is tour.

Neil Barrett (01:23:23.974)
He's offense just put up 19 goals.

Brandon Hooten (01:23:31.342)
If they're producing at a high level and their defense doesn't have to do a ton, I like their chances. But Maryland's been playing real well. And I think Emmett Carroll's just, he's found his rhythm. They're probably going to dominate the faceoff stripe if I had to guess. Not necessarily like a 75-25, but I would anticipate like a 60-40 split probably. So does that factor in?

Neil Barrett (01:23:31.91)
they're producing at a high level and their defense doesn't have to do a ton. I like their chances, but Maryland's been playing real well. I think Emmett Carroll's just, he's, he's found his rhythm. They're probably going to dominate the faceoff stripe if I had to guess, not necessarily like a 75, 25, but I would anticipate like a 60, 40 split probably. So does that factor in?

Brandon Hooten (01:24:04.224)
I don't know. Philly's been too... I mean, both have been up and down, but Philly, for as good as they are on paper, has been way too inconsistent to tell right now, I think.

Neil Barrett (01:24:04.449)
I don't know that Philly has been too, I mean, both have been up and down, but Philly for as good as they are on paper has been way too inconsistent to tell right now. think. I don't even think they've been all that inconsistent. have, they have put up some big point numbers, but also still lost those games. Like, you know, they've lost four straight. It's like they're playing well, but they still lose. Yeah. Or they played poorly and then they win. Like it's not.

Brandon Hooten (01:24:25.644)
well, that's what I'm saying, is like, they're playing well but they're still loose. or they play poorly and then they win. like, it's not... I just don't know.

Neil Barrett (01:24:35.078)
I don't like the way that they have finished the season losing four straight basically backing into the playoffs. I don't like I obviously they have the talent to win the games. You know, if we come if we sit down here heading into the semifinals and they're still alive, you're not going to be too shocked. They have the talent, but they're just

They have lost four straight. They haven't really looked particularly good. When they do look good on on the offensive end, the defense looks atrocious. It doesn't really seem to matter whether they're getting good goalie play or bad goalie play or indifferent goalie play. They they just can't do enough as much as I'd like to say that they'll drop, you know, another 17, 18, 19 points and win.

I think this whips defense is pretty good. think Emmett Carroll has been very good since they kind of made him the guy for them. And. Like we have talked about all year when they when they let the kids run. It works for them, it works really well for them to the point where. Even like you like you mentioned, even even Rob Pennell looked good this past weekend.

I think I think maybe as a that's kind of a tertiary option or something but

You know, we've talked about that all season. That's the blueprint for them to to win games. And. While I while we have said that before and then they lost, I I'd like to think that they legitimately understand that at this point and will do that. So I think I'm going to ride with the whips on this and I hate saying that, but.

Neil Barrett (01:26:37.838)
It is what it is, I guess. Let's move on to the chaos versus Redwoods game.

I'm gonna let you go first on this one. Who are you taking in this?

Brandon Hooten (01:26:51.074)
Well I'm not taking the team that loses every time I pick them.

Neil Barrett (01:26:51.974)
Well I'm not taking the team that loses every time I pick them.

Brandon Hooten (01:26:55.768)
That's Carolina. Every time. Every time I've picked them, they've lost. I mean, like clockwork. So naturally whoever I pick is gonna lose.

Neil Barrett (01:26:56.536)
I was gonna say you might have to be more specific every time I've taken

Neil Barrett (01:27:04.421)
light pluck.

So naturally whoever I pick is going to lose.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:14.658)
I don't know, Carolina has the defense, but California has the offense. So...

Neil Barrett (01:27:14.99)
don't know, Car- Carolina has the defense, but California has the offense. So...

Brandon Hooten (01:27:26.594)
I don't know, my heart's saying California, like matchup wise, think Carolina makes a little more sense.

Neil Barrett (01:27:26.81)
I don't know, my heart's saying California, but like matchup wise, think Carolina makes a little more sense. Just because I think the divas can keep the minute long enough to where your offense only has to do the minimum scoring wise. And I think Owen Hilts will bounce back.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:34.348)
just because I think the divas can keep the minute long enough to where your offense only has to do the bare minimum scoring wise. And I think Owen Hiltz will bounce back.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:50.954)
I don't know. This might be a game time decision for me.

Neil Barrett (01:27:51.59)
I don't know. This might be a game time decision for me. They did split in the regular season. California won the first game in week one and in week seven in Chicago, Carolina beat them 12 to 10. So not a ton to go off of there. I.

I mean, I think the real answer is probably which Chris Kavanaugh are you gonna get? Are you gonna get two or three points out of Chris Kavanaugh or are gonna get six or seven points out of Chris Kavanaugh? Because I think you get six or seven and the Redwoods win. You get three and it's probably gonna be Carolina.

Neil Barrett (01:28:40.858)
the the the other thing too is I Think that was one of it wasn't the first it wasn't the first Owen Hill its game But it was one of the earlier Owen Hill its games. So do they adjust? To him now having played him and seen him on tape for several weeks now. Do they adjust? Do they even have anyone that can really slow them down on that that defense that?

that Redwoods defense is not the best. You know, I think I think I would, I think I'd go Carolina. Like you said, by picking them, means they're going to, they're not going to show if they're going to lose. But if I, if I just think about it more generally, I'd imagine blaze has a pretty good game. The defense has a pretty good game. And then between

Roscott Jackson Eicher and Owen Hilts I just think that at least one of them is gonna be getting free pretty much all day and then if you can get some more production out of Shane Knoblock maybe part hits a two or something like

I don't know. I think it could, I think it could really work out. The other thing is the battle between Justin and Osio and TD Erlen was right around 50%. So, you know, if, Justin and Osio can be right at 50 % or better, then obviously that's going to go a long way too, because it's probably going to be another very close game and

It could be one or two possessions that swing the game. So I'll go, I'll go, I'll go chaos. Whether or not you go redwoods. We'll see, I guess. We'll see. You say it's going to be a game time decision as if you're going to like tweet out, Hey, this is my game time decision. I'm going to earlier in the day. That's going to be like, guys hold them to that. You guys hold them to that. It's going to say my

Brandon Hooten (01:30:34.958)
We'll see. I don't know.

Brandon Hooten (01:30:42.658)
How am I gonna do that now? I'm gonna put out a tweet earlier in the day that's gonna be like... It's gonna say, it's gonna say, it's gonna say my pick for tonight will be a game time decision. And then right before face off, I'm gonna be like, this is who I'm, who I'm taking.

Neil Barrett (01:30:52.058)
My pick for tonight will be a game time decision. And then right before face off, I'm gonna be like, this is who I'm taking. They will hold you to it and I will hold you to it. wanna see your game time decision. Of course then again, maybe in a week, I'll have some thought like, you know what, no, this is stupid. I know who I want. I know, I know. Yeah. The thing is though, it's not like they're gonna practice. It's not like,

Brandon Hooten (01:31:04.503)
Hey.

Course then again, maybe in a week, I'll have some thought and be like, you know what, no, this is stupid. I know who I want. I don't know.

Neil Barrett (01:31:22.042)
I mean, I guess an injury report could swing it. Sometimes I just need some clarity, just some time to sit and think. And then all of sudden it's just like...

Brandon Hooten (01:31:22.623)
but yeah sometimes I just need some some clarity just some time to sit and think and then all of sudden she's like

Neil Barrett (01:31:31.59)
All right. Next week when we talk about MVP, I'll ask you again, see if you've had that moment of clarity. All right. And if not, then we're expecting a game day tweet from you. All right. All right. All right. We will end the show here. Like I said, next week we will talk about MVPs and rookie of the years and all those things. I'm sure we have some thoughts. I'm sure we have some things to debate.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:37.262)
All right. All right.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:41.76)
Alright, alright, I can do that.

Neil Barrett (01:32:01.414)
We already had a little bit of a debate I Mean there are there are definitely gonna be some But that might be the debate we already debated goalie of the year a little bit Maybe not goalie of the year. I think it was more rookie of the year, but

Brandon Hooten (01:32:03.884)
Not for a couple of them.

Brandon Hooten (01:32:08.162)
The followers know where I stand on a couple of them.

Brandon Hooten (01:32:16.77)
There's no debate.

There's no debate.

Neil Barrett (01:32:24.28)
I mean, not from you. Not today. You can expect a lot more of this level of interaction next week. All right. We will, like I said, we will get out of here on that. If you enjoyed the show, please give it a like a follow a subscribe a thumbs up emoji. But. I'm totally blanking, I don't even know what I'm saying right now.

Brandon Hooten (01:32:28.248)
norway

Brandon Hooten (01:32:33.326)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:32:54.394)
Just talking, just chatting, stumbling through my words, trying to say goodbye to the viewers, but trying to and failing miserably. There's a reason why I normally write this stuff down. But anyway, all of those things really do help our show grow and help us continue to put out these shows every week. But. Actually, wait before we sign off, we got to we got an off weekend this weekend. What you doing?

Brandon Hooten (01:32:56.62)
Yep. Trying to say goodbye to the viewers, but...

Brandon Hooten (01:33:25.437)
I'm shooting a bare-knuckle event. Saturday.

Neil Barrett (01:33:25.627)
I'm shooting a bare-knuckle event. Sad.

Interesting.

Brandon Hooten (01:33:31.838)
my second one so I'm looking forward to it. should be... Apparently the main event, whoever she is, is like a Colorado legend is what I was told. So I'm assuming there'll be a good crowd but it was last time I did it it was pretty cool I got like blood on my face at one point that was not my own so I well that part wasn't cool I was freaking out there for a minute but I got cleaned up it was fine but yeah so that'll be cool but

Neil Barrett (01:33:36.39)
Apparently the main event, whoever she is, is like...

Neil Barrett (01:33:43.238)
assuming there'll be a good crowd, it was a last time I did it. It was pretty cool. got like blood on my face at one point. So cool. So I will. That part wasn't cool. I was freaking out there for a minute, but I got cleaned up. It was fine. But yeah, so that'll be cool. But nice. I got a I got nothing really all that cool with my wife and I got to basically clean our whole house because the following weekend, my mom is coming up.

Brandon Hooten (01:34:01.583)
Got it.

Neil Barrett (01:34:12.784)
to New Hampshire for the first time. She's never been up here and hasn't been up here in the two years that I've lived up here. So she's coming up here. So we gotta scrub my whole house. But then we're also going to look, we might be moving. So we're gonna go look at a couple of houses up near where my wife, not my mom, where my wife works. Cause we might be moving sometime in the not too distant future.

Brandon Hooten (01:34:43.022)
guys.

Neil Barrett (01:34:43.206)
That's pretty much it though. gonna be at this weekend was I know I don't have to tell you because you've been to several weeks this year, but that split Saturday is such a long day. Such a freaking long day. We got up at I think we left the house at about nine o'clock and we weren't home until like after midnight and it's hot and gross and

Brandon Hooten (01:35:08.333)
Yep.

Neil Barrett (01:35:10.048)
my God. And then we had to get up Saturday, Sunday morning to go do some stuff. So didn't even get to like sleep in or any. man. It, it, it's exhausting. So anyway, let's get out of here. as always, you guys can find me at I am Neil Barrett on Twitter and Instagram. can find Brandon at Hootsports media on Twitter and Instagram, as well as the show at.

run out pod on Twitter and Instagram. Hit us up with any thoughts, messages, questions. Next week we are going to be doing a mailbag. So definitely send us in any questions that you have. Doesn't even have to be lacrosse related. We'll gladly answer anything that you guys got. But if you guys got some thoughts about the season that was or some predictions about the future of the

the playoffs and maybe the league as a whole, please send them in. But with that, we will get out of here. And as always, we'll catch you in the comments.