Dawg Day Afternoon

Neil Barrett: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the runout. I am Neil Barrett. He is Brandon Hooton. We have so much to get into this week. Philadelphia ran Denver off the field to win the PLL championship. CJ Kirst walked away with pretty much every major PLL award. And the NLL had quite a busy two weeks since we last had an episode. But before we get into that, Brandon, how are we doing, man? @HootSportsMedia: Doing well, just been as busy as ever. So, it's gonna be basically now until April May time is just super busy every single day for me. So that's why we didn't record last week. We'll see how much it affects my schedule moving forward. But, you know, can't complain. It's better busy than nothing. I Neil Barrett: There's gonna be a new host soon. Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: dude you'd be surprised last week if every single day last week I was on a different call trying to figure stuff out, get stuff ready, To to live edit that first NHL game, that was an adventure, but it worked out, it went well. Neil Barrett: You you haven't talked about that on here. You wanna you wanna tell the the listeners about that? @HootSportsMedia: yeah. I mean I'm I'm live editing for the NHL this year. just should be about forty games if if my math is correct that I'm doing, plus playoffs. So that's been you know, big, big learning curve to say the least. you know, Stadium Pulse was definitely going there on that first game, but you know what, we got over it. We're good. so far so good. No issues from what I could tell. No one said I did a bad job, so Not complaining, but Neil Barrett: Sorry, I you reminded me to check the the score of the Hurricanes game. they did their banner ra raising tonight, but the the Panthers won in overtime, dang it. But yeah, that that's that's so dope. I d it's weird to be like, I'm proud of you, but like it's so cool 'cause I know it's something you've been working for. So and I know it's editing and that's not like, you know, exactly what you want to be doing, but foot in the door is a foot in a door, so like, you know. @HootSportsMedia: Work is work, you know. It's it it's work Neil Barrett: You know. @HootSportsMedia: that has to get done and it's a good skill to learn 'cause not everyone can do it. So, you know, definitely helping with my typing skills as well. So hoping that by the end of the season I'm like dialed in, you know, and can just Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: do it without even thinking. But yeah, so lear definitely learn some things that I'm gonna try to use for myself this Saturday at Air Force. so we'll see. Neil Barrett: I like it. I like it. And and you know what? Pretty soon you'll you'll be the one shooting the game or the yeah, the games. I don't know why I was confused about that word, but yeah. @HootSportsMedia: See, I hope so. Neil Barrett: so yeah, that's why we didn't do an episode last week. we weren't planning to not do the episode, it just kinda happened that Brandon had some stuff going on, so we decided to wait. and this will be I hesitate to say, like I'm like, do I call this the last episode of the season? Or what this is this is when we take our little hiatus between the two seasons. There's not a whole lot going on between now and the start of the N L L season. So we'll be off for we haven't fully decided, probably somewhere around six ish weeks. I've gotta move like like Brandon was just talking about, he got a he got a job that's very time consuming. So this will be the last episode for the immediate future, but we'll be back at the start of the NLL season. Or at least I will be maybe Brandon's like I gotta I gotta but we'll we'll figure it out and let let you guys know so keep an eye on that. trying to think what else is what else has been going on in in the last two weeks. soccer news is ablaze right now. I I know I know you've been locked in, t really tuned into that. @HootSportsMedia: yep, I have. Neil Barrett: You have no idea what's happening, do you? @HootSportsMedia: Nope. Neil Barrett: One of let's see if I can explain this quickly and succinctly. What's your favorite team? Not soccer team. Yeah, just what's @HootSportsMedia: You mean like just any team or you the Broncos. Neil Barrett: your favorite team? The Broncos. Alright, and so your biggest rival is the Raiders? @HootSportsMedia: Raiders, Chiefs, one of the two. Neil Barrett: probably Chiefs right now. Actually, Chiefs might be a good example. Okay, so imagine it's not a one-to-one. Imagine that the Chiefs got caught cheating, like circumventing the salary cap to the tune of nearly a billion dollars over the span of ten years. That's kind of what's happening in the world of soccer. My favorite team is Manchester United. One of our we would call them little brothers. in-city rival Manchester City, was just caught cheating. 115 counts to the tune of just under a billion dollars. so we're @HootSportsMedia: I actually did hear about this today. I did get the the alert on my phone, but I didn't look into it. I just was like, Neil Barrett: Yes. Yes. @HootSportsMedia: yeah 'cause obviously with the clippers sit thing that just came out, you know, this past year I Neil Barrett: Yes. @HootSportsMedia: I kind of expect that it's going on a lot more, you know, across the globe. So Neil Barrett: Well, so this actually came out in twenty eighteen, when a German newspaper got leaked emails. the j the it's hard to explain, but like their system is way slower. They have to be like way more exacting in it and everything. So it's literally taken eight years to to to get to this point and now we're we're still gonna have appeals and stuff. Like it could be another couple of years. I I think they're gonna try and speed this along, have something by the end of this season, which roughly the same kind of time frame that you were talking about with the NHL. but yeah, that's been that's been like a huge thing, obviously in my world. like you know, it it broke on Friday all weekend people were talking about it and then today w the official announcement was made. So it officially came out. So yeah, that's been that's been fun. That's been fun to deal with. But let's talk something lacrosse. How about that? @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, yeah. Neil Barrett: we will start with the PLL championship that saw the Water Dogs win fourteen to four. I don't even know how much we even really want to talk about this game. Be one, because it's now been well over a week. I I I just don't know that there's a whole lot left to really say about it. But two, there's just not a whole lot to talk about in this game. Like it just was not a a good game in in really any respect. I mean I guess I guess if you're Kyle Bennett and you're a Philadelphia Water Dogs fan, you probably enjoyed it, but just for the neutral, like it just wasn't an enjoyable game to watch, really. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, I think it's very evident that the Philadelphia Water Dogs are circumventing the salary cap with their Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: team and they need to be investigated. Preferably n it doesn't take eight years, like Man City. But yeah, it's very obvious Neil Barrett: Well @HootSportsMedia: that Steve Ballmer somehow involved and is doing that. So yeah, that's all I have to say about that. He had like a tree planting like business or something. Yeah. I think it is a spire actually, Neil Barrett: Yep. What was what was the what was the Kawaii what was the Kawaii company aspire a aspiration? Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: I think it is. Which is just hilarious, Neil Barrett: Ha ha. @HootSportsMedia: but yeah, no, there there isn't really much to say. I wasn't even mad when it happened because I made peace with it two weeks prior. when when both these teams advanced, it was kinda like this is just I think I wanna say I said like week three that they were the best team in the league and that they should be the favorites, and this is why. I made a funny joke on Twitter that I was cracking up about. with it being four to fourteen because at one point in time that was a score in Denver when they played each other as well. So it was just meant to be. I don't have much to say. There's literally nothing good on Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: on our side to say, so Neil Barrett: Yeah, I not that I not that I think that the water dogs wouldn't have won anyway, but it really, really felt like A game where Denver just did not play their game to their capabilities in in in any way. again, Philadelphia likely would still have won. I I think, like you said, I think we all think that Philadelphia was the best team. I think Denver could have played way better than they did. They we all talked all year about how Brendan O'Neill looked awful because he j because he was shooting so poorly. And even though he even though he was kind of quietly having a fairly decent season, he just was shooting so poorly and we all thought he was playing like crap. I shouldn't say we all you and I talked about how we didn't think that he was actually playing that bad, but like the the the kind of narrative around him was how bad he was playing this season. And yet They shot he shot 18% on the year. They shot 12% in this game as a team. Like they were atrocious shooting. And some of that is Philadelphia's defense, obviously. Some of that is Sean Burn and net, obviously. But a a good chunk of it was just them playing so poorly, taking awful shots, Taking just standing around. I felt like so much of that game was one guy with the ball working to try and, you know, beat his man and everyone else just standing around watching him play. the the defense was they were they were better in the second half, but I I didn't understand the the the putting Mike Manley on CJ Carson. I mean, I I assume the idea was that J. T. Giles Harris could match foot speed with Sours, take him one on one, and that Mike Manley's size and kind of physical prowess could match up with CJ's kind of size and and physical prowess. But CJ especially in that game, I mean just generally and I think this is true, but especially in that game, I think he I think he looked like like Prime Steph Curry, you know, 2016 Steph Curry just constantly moving everywhere. And Mike Manley's 37 years old. Like he just he just ain't keeping up with that. And I didn't understand from the start, I didn't understand why Kenny Brower wasn't on CJ. And that that ultimately ended up being the switch that they made. But by then it was too late. I you know, they were already up. twelve to four, you know, like it it it was kinda already over at that point, even though I think they did kind of play better in the second half, but you know @HootSportsMedia: Did you mean Ben Randall was the switch? Neil Barrett: Yep, sure did. Sure did. @HootSportsMedia: I just just just making sure, 'cause Kenny Brower is on the other Neil Barrett: I mean @HootSportsMedia: team. Neil Barrett: I mean no I didn't but yes that is the switch. Like yeah. No, I just I just was dumb and was thinking of the other Duke defender apparently. That would mean that would have meant that all three of Denver's defenders would have been Duke Defenders. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, yeah. Neil Barrett: Maybe maybe that's what maybe that's what it was. Just Duke bias. Maybe that's what it was. We'll we'll go with that. Not not not stupidity. anyway, CJ Kirst ended up as the almost called him rookie of the year. The MVP of this game, seven points, five goals to assists, I think is what it was. absolutely deserved. You know, you and I talked several for the last several weeks, about Brennan O'Neal and how important it was for him to get going early and how much that opens up everything else that they wanna do. and I thought the same thing happened here with CJ scoring kinda right off the bat. it just opened up everything that they wanted to do and made everything so much easier. I don't know. I d I I don't know what else what else you got to say about this game, but ugly for Denver, great for Philly. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, no, that's basically it. When CJ scored that first goal, I kinda said, we're in trouble because they've ran that same play like literally every game all year long. And so to me it was like you just let their best goal scorer literally just get to the cage. Like no s like to me, like i it's play number one essentially in the game and you weren't already thinking like they're gonna do this. That to me was concerning and obviously look what happened. But the other thing too was I just felt like coming into the game for them to even have a chance, like they had to dominate the face off battle. Just what that I mean, it doesn't even matter if Stathokiss is really having a good day because they have Zach Courier who can just kind of swoop in and get whatever he wants. So you know, knowing that we had an older defense outside of JT, who you know, he's not young by any means, but you know, w we don't have any young guys. We're we're all pretty I don't wanna say slow, but they're not fast. And when you're playing Sours and C J, it was kinda like, okay It's gonna be barbecue chicken, most of the game anyway, but you have to respond to the offensive end. And like we were talking about in the chat, like most of that first half, and really most of the third quarter, I felt like was just them throwing the ball away. The outlaws. Like when you look at the overall stats, Neil Barrett: Yes. Mm-hmm. @HootSportsMedia: it w the turnovers are twenty one to twenty, but it felt like, at least with Phillies, most of it was like, Well, they're having to work for it. They're just losing the ball. The outlaws, it was just like like we're not even talking about passes like to the crease that are getting lot. We're talking about passes that are just to initiate the offense at the top of the the you know, the midline that are just flying out and like over and over and over again to the point where they were basically playing make it take it, 'cause even when we got the ball, it was just like, well, it's a turnover. And then we finally got a shot and it's fifteen feet wide because we're just having to get one on net, you know, and by the time Neil Barrett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. @HootSportsMedia: you get, like you said, to you know, a twelve four game, whatever it was, you got Grand Bundy, you just ripping twos back to back to back from the top of the key. I'm like you haven't taken a shot all game? And we're like, yeah, we're just gonna have you come take twos. Like I know you I know you're trying to catch up, but I I to me, they reverted back to like what we saw in their six losses during the regular season, where there was no game plan. It was just kinda like just go out there and see what happens. And you know, that that's why I said I was surprised they made it this far after the I I think about the Redwoods game, they literally try to throw the game away. They did the exact same thing they did in this game. They just happened to put up fifteen points first. you know I thought they played some of their best lacrosse against the archers and then all of a sudden they just forgot what they did and decided not to do that. So aga I'm with you though. I don't think they would have won the game even if they played their best, but it's still just like you get all this way and like that's what like that's what you do. So Neil Barrett: You lay an egg. Yep. Yep. @HootSportsMedia: at least last year it was like, well, th they literally took him to the wire and that's the second time they played this year. That score wise it was you know, they beat the Atlas once, the Atl by one, the Atlas beat them by one in the championship. Like this was just like back to back dominations. So yeah, I I d I don't know where they go from here. I think Philly obviously is in a a great spot and they still have you they have a lot of guys out with injury and stuff like that. So we'll see kinda how their, you know, roster ends up looking next year. But I have a hard time saying anyone's really gonna compete with them, for the next few years. Neil Barrett: We'll we'll get to some some predictions. you know, we have a we have a tradition on the show of making making predictions as soon as the season is over. So we'll we'll get to some of those in a little bit. But but yeah, I am glad that you brought up th those turnovers. that was that was a again part of Part of what was so frustrating to me during this game was just watching them come down and throw the ball away over and over and over again. And and like you said, on simple exchanges, not not on, you know, tricky passes, not defense make good play. Literally just passing it around the outside. They were just throwing it away. I made I made the joke that the the as bad as this game was for the Outlaws, that it was worse for String King because you know they have they have Pat and Brennan and both of them I felt like were just their sticks were just throwing high, throwing you know, weird passes all game, everything. and I was like, man, you know, if I was String King, I'm just watching that that plummet. but Yeah, they just like you said, it felt like they didn't really have a game plan. They didn't have any real adjustments. I know that this has been one of the things that you have been frustrated about from for pretty much all of Tim Sudan's run, you know, ever since they became the Denver Outlaws, i is kind of his lack of adjustments, his inability to game plan and and I I think it showed here. Like it it if if there was a game that you could show to anyone and be like, this is why I don't like sudo, this was the game. Like there just was nothing. And there was a part of me that held out this this little bit of hope that, you know for for large stretches of the of the season, the Outlaws could only put it together for one half. And there was a part of me that was really hoping that in that second half maybe they would come out. Again, I didn't really expect them to win, but they could at least make it interesting, get themselves back into the game, you know, close that gap. And they really came out and looked pretty much exactly the same. they they did not score in the second half. and I I don't even know @HootSportsMedia: I thought they were worse, actually. Neil Barrett: Well yeah, I mean offensively probably I think the defense got better, although how much of that is is Philly kind of reining it back in a little bit. But defensively I thought they got a little bit better and thus in that sense it was slightly closer. I mean Philly scored eleven in the first half and three in the second. So maybe there's a a a small argument for that they were, you know, marginally better. but yeah, they I I I think I would agree with you that they were they were probably worse on the offensive side in that second half. And I it that was again, I think one of the frustrating parts was like it didn't feel like there was any real fight. They just kind of gave up, essentially, and were like, you know, this is this is just gonna happen. You know, they're they're they're already up, like, what's the point? It didn't feel like they had a fight. I I'm not at all blaming it on this. D did you feel like the weather had any part in it? I I just I watched that game and I just thought, man, this is such a like cruddy game. @HootSportsMedia: I mean, the weather plays a factor, but both teams are playing in it. So, like, Neil Barrett: Sure. @HootSportsMedia: as much as I wanna be like, you know, that's why they're throwing the ball away, one team was doing it and one team wasn't. So at a certain point it's like I I know it's hard to adjust to that type of thing, like you can't control how much water's on the ball. Like it it just is what it is. But when I'm watching one team put the ball in the back of the net and another team putting it in the end line net that's designed to catch shots over and over and over again Like that that's a poor excuse. If you you know, if it was a thirteen to fourteen game, you can bet I'd be all on board about, hey, a couple of those passes, the water This is a fourteen to four game. You just got played off the field. Like you you can't you know what I mean? Like it's you can't blame weather officiating like it's literally just like you said, you just gave up, unfortunately. And I thought body language was incredibly poor, which I've been calling out all year as well. Like when Neil Barrett: Yes. @HootSportsMedia: things don't go well, there are a few players that I just think look uninterested. And it that is the best word for it. It doesn't look like, you know, they're just frustrated. Like it I played sports. I I was there was plenty of times that I'm sure I looked very upset. But there's a difference between that and truly looking like I don't even care that I'm here, like let's just get on a plane and go home, kind of deal. And I felt like there was too much of that down the stretch, especially. and that that like I said, led into shot selection. I think that led into hustle and ground balls. Like again, like I'll agree with you, the defense looks better in the second half. Outside of those three guys, like who else really looked I I mean I felt bad for Logan McNaney making eleven saves and still giving up fourteen scores. Like he he was getting pelted, I felt like, and then our shots were just not even close to being on cage. And by the time they were, they were like easy saves for for sh for I'm liking how his name, Sean Byrne, who I felt like I I I made a joke, I was like, put that man on the front lines, 'cause he's he stops everything. Like I felt like everything that was shot his way, it was in his stick. Neil Barrett: Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought too was everything was either ten feet high, ten feet wide, or was from like the angle it was it was like you know a a low percentage shot and or also shot kind of directly at him. I I think of the of the eleven saves that he made, I I think one Maybe two was any kind of difficult for him at all. Like where he had to work and make a save. They just they just were so bad. And and to @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. And and that's not to hate on him. Like he he still played well, but yeah. Neil Barrett: Right, right. and and to your point, in a lot of ways, I'd I'd almost rather you be frustrated and and show some emotion than just looking completely apathetic about it, which is what it kind of felt like. And I I'm not I'm not blaming the rain when I when I asked that earlier at all. The rain is not the reason you lost by ten goals. Like that's not a thing. Honestly, if you lost by one goal, I probably still wouldn't blame the rain, even though I might say it played a factor. Like you said, both teams are playing in it. One team dealt with it, the other team didn't. But the the weather felt like it kind of contributed to that apathetic feeling of and and maybe it's just Maybe it's just kind of the visual representation of it that was playing in my mind. Almost like a movie, you know, if you if you want to kind of heighten that feeling, you would set it in rain. So maybe maybe it's more of like my kind of interpretation than any kind of real thing that took place in that game. But I just was watching that game and and I I think I think apathetic might be a a really good word for it. Like it just felt like almost like I don't wanna say they didn't care. Like I I think I think they care. I think they wanted to win the game. If you saw Pat after the game, he looked pretty upset that he didn't that, you know, they were in this position. But it you know, you just watched them on the field and it just didn't feel like they cared at all. Like it you know, there was no fight from that team whatsoever. So One one last thing before we move off of it. We gotta we gotta talk about Bill Tierney winning his first pro title, his eighth championship overall, he won seven in the NCAA. I believe I believe I saw he's the first person to ever win an NCAA title and a pro championship. I I believe I saw that. don't @HootSportsMedia: You know I'm the wrong person to ask for that, but if so, that's cool. Neil Barrett: Don't quote me, don't yeah, that's that's what I thought. I that's I I understand that lacrosse is not, you know, football or basketball or baseball or anything, but I I feel like any time that you can say that you are the first to ever do something even in a game like this, that's that's pretty cool. And I I think I don't know that there was much doubt before this, but I I think I think it's pretty safe to say that Bill Tierney's probably the the best coach. At least at least of of kind of the modern, you know, last thirty, forty years. I I know, you know, Roy Simmons is up there. you know, what's the guy from Salisbury? Jim something, I think. Anyway, you know, he's won like 26 national titles or something ridiculous. there's certainly some some cases. you know, I I'm obviously a big John Donowski fan. You know, he has he has the most ever NCAA wins, but he's got three championships. So, you know, Bill Tierney gets all the credit in the world. That being said, we'll we'll probably talk about it in a little bit. I did not think he was coach of the year this year, but that's it that's a conversation we'll have later. the other thing I wanted to shout out, 'cause we can only kinda mentioned him real briefly, Zach Courier was incredible in this game, everywhere, all over the field. some of some of the plays he made, some of the ground balls he got. That one where he's like on he like dives on the ground and, you know, it has it one-handed between two guys and they got that time out was incredible. Obviously the the little f one-handed flick to I almost called it McMeekin, Stathicus for Stathicus's goal was incredible. Courier was all over it in my mind The three stars of this game in order were Cursed, Courier, Burn. You got any arguments on that? @HootSportsMedia: That's fine. I would like for Courier to stop ending my Neil Barrett: Maybe @HootSportsMedia: team seasons. That'd be sick. But you know, he refuses to do so for some reason. So Neil Barrett: Why would he do that? @HootSportsMedia: I I you know it's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. Here I thought he was a good guy, you know. Neil Barrett: man. Nope, nope, nope. He hate he clearly has a vendetta against you. @HootSportsMedia: Yes, yes. Obviously. That's yeah. A hundred percent. Neil Barrett: all right, bef before the championship game we had the PLL awards. I'll I'll read through them through the positional awards. We're not gonna talk about, you know, team hate award and all that stuff that we're not you know, we don't see in the locker rooms and stuff. Comeback Player of the Year, Xander Dixon. short stick defensive midfielder of the year, Brian Tevlin, LSM Ethan Rawl, face off Andrew McMeekin, Rookie of the Year, Joey Spilina, Defensive Player of the Year, Brandon Lavelle, goalie, Brad Dobson, Coach, Bill Tierney, midfielder, Zach Courier, Attackman, Michael Sowers, MVP, CJ Kirst. All right. That's the list. What what are your thoughts on on kind of that list overall? @HootSportsMedia: I'm Hold on one second. Who who did you say won MVP? Sorry, this is a long time ago at this point. Who who won MVP and who won Attackman of the Year? Sorry. Neil Barrett: CJ Kurz won VP, Michael Sowers won't attack me. You don't know that CJ Kurz won V? @HootSportsMedia: Okay, I just before I said what I was gonna say, I wanted no, I wanted to make sure that that was accurate before I started talking. yeah, I still like I said previously, think Sours should have been VP and C J should have been attacking of the year. I know most times those are the same player. But again, I think Sours impacts the game more overall, and I think C J's just a pure goal scorer, he's a bucket. So I would have swapped those, but other than that, I was I mean I was I was sort of surprised Ethan Raw won LSM of the year. not that he isn't good enough to win it or like I know Brian was on board with that and all that stuff and we talked about that, but I guess I was more surprised that I felt like there was more discourse going Pasino's way, at least that I saw. And so then when that happened I like, wow, like but other than that I'm trying to think. I I mean McMeekin winning face off made sense. yeah, I don't know, I was I was Pretty okay with the rest of them. Neil Barrett: I'm not super fussed about really any of them. I I did think Pesino was LSM. I'm not mad at Ethan Rawl. I mean I he was great. I I so I can't really complain about that. I had T D Erlin for face-off, but I I get Andrew McBeacon. Like it makes total sense. again, I I didn't have Joey Spilina as as my personal as who I would vote, although I did think Joey would ultimately win it. Coach of the Year is probably one of the ones I'm I'm mo most opposite on. I d I just don't you know I I know I just talked about Bill Bill Tierney and how great he is, but you know, his team is exactly where we thought they'd be. At at the beginning of the season, we thought, yeah, this is a championship caliber team. So, you know, I I don't know. I it just doesn't mean as much to me. I think Chris Bates was incredible, what he did to that Archers team. I mean, I coming into the season, especially knowing some of the injuries that they had and and some of the things some of the growing pains that they were gonna have, I I don't think anybody would have been surprised if the Archers were dead last again. so for his team to have been that good this year, I think he did a masterful job. And Bill Tierney has the credit has the not credit, but the Yeah, what's the word I'm looking for here? The benefit of his GM is Dave Coddle. Dave Cottle is one of the the big reasons they were able to build that roster that they that they got Gavin Adler, that they got some of these these guys and and you know the the way that they drafted and everything. Chris Bates is doing it all himself. so you know, I l I love Bill Tierney. I think he is an incredible coach. I literally just called him probably the the best coach of all time but I I just I just thought it was Chris Chris Bates. Zach Career at midfield totally fine. I'm not one for splitting attack in mid f and MVP. You know the the VP is an attackman he should be the best attackman of the year. but if you're gonna split them I I'm with you I definitely thought Michael Sowers was the best player on it and I I just really feel like I just really feel like everyone decided in week five that it was gonna be CJ and nothing you could nothing we saw was ever gonna change that opinion in the last I think seven games of the season Michael Sowers had whatever it was I said a couple weeks ago like 32 points CJ had like 21 you know this there's this idea that you know, Michael Sowers is getting twos and and CJ Kirst is getting ones. I I really hate this conversation and I wish that we would stop talking. I think we way over talk about this idea of the number one versus the number two. First of all, I think the drop-off in the PL between your number one and your number two is not that big. Every single poll, Maybe not every single poll, but most teams have two guys, at least two guys that are, you know, very, very high caliber, you know, we're all Americans at their school, one of the best defenders to ever come through their school, you know, all this stuff. And I think so much more of it has to do with matchups and and you know Mike Manley is probably the number two, but we know that that wasn't a good matchup with CJ. you know, that they they should have had Ben Randall on him that whole game. And and maybe it doesn't make a huge difference, but it would have made a difference. I think the second half was evidence of that. so, you know, I I think I get so tired of that conversation. and I've seen several people being like, see what's what CJ did in the championship game, like, see that's just proof that he was the right pick for the MVP. And it's like, no That's not a thing. The MVP w is a regular season award. @HootSportsMedia: Funny enough, if if he was assisting like that in the regular season, they'd have a point. Which is exactly my argument for Michael Sowers. You know? Like he Neil Barrett: Fair. True. Yeah, true. @HootSportsMedia: that that was probably the best game of his season. Which is saying something. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah, I think it definitely was. I don't think he had a game over six points in the regular season. I'm not even sure he got to six. I know he got to five. I don't remember if he got to six or not, but seven I believe is his best game of the season. and you know, like you said, I you know, if he if he's playing that way all season we may not have a conversation, but he but he didn't. and I I thought Michael Sowers should have been it. And now now my worry is that Michael Sowers is gonna become like Kieran McArdle. And he's gonna be this guy @HootSportsMedia: Basically. Neil Barrett: that has been so good for so long, and he's just going to always be in the shadow of and I know Michael Sowers probably doesn't care. He he probably would rather have that championship than the MVP. But it did make me wonder. I I think I saw somebody ask this question online and and that that made me wonder. I do we get to a point where Michael Sowers leaves the Water Dogs so that he can in in many ways, even though in my mind I would still have him as the better player than CJ cursed, at least right now as these teams are are constructed. Not saying CJ won't reach a higher ceiling at some point, but right here, right now, I would take Michael Sowers just because of everything that he does. is there is there a point that comes? And I'm not necessarily asking you to answer this, although feel free to chime in with your thoughts. is there a time where Michael Sowers leaves Philly? and and and you know gets to kind of come out of the shadow of CJ curse because I if if he can lead the league in points be only the second player ever to hit 50 points in the regular season and still not win the MVP of this league. Like I don't I don't know what else he can do apart from leave CJ. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, I don't think he ever leaves just because he's a Philly guy. to me I think it brings me back to a conversation we had a year or two ago now about at some point, you know, when accolades come into contract negotiations, stuff like this actually affects that. and I'm sure people will say, Well it's not happening right now, so it doesn't matter and it's like it doesn't, but it sets precedence. And you know, again, you know, you can assign value however you you want. I'm sure people out there are saying Brett Dobson was more valuable, he should have been VP. I would have listened to those arguments as well. Like you know, CJ had a fantastic year. No one's taking that away from him. But I I do kind of look like we talked about Holman a few years back. And like we think about those types of years where it's like, hmm, if that's not good enough, then they're they're never getting one. And then at some point you're gonna give them one and everyone's gonna say, But wait a minute, I thought that that wasn't actually the criteria. And I'm not saying criteria cannot change over time. That's actually why I appreciate someone like Dan Orestia putting out his article every year of saying this is why I voted the way I did. Because I think that's helpful year over year to be like, okay, he saw this happen and that's why he's voting this way versus just being like, Well, I don't know, I liked him this year. Not the like like and I think back to, you know, the NBA, when Steph won MVP his last I think it was his last MVP, and you look at the numbers, the breakdown numbers, versus what he did, I think just a couple of years ago, people were like, How did he not win? Like he had better numbers all around. And it's like he did, and so did everyone else around him. So did the entire league. Everyone Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: else's numbers are up too. In that case, I completely understand being like he he improved, but so did everybody else. But that doesn't happen too often in lacrosse outside of us adding more games to the season. So naturally there's gonna be a little bit of bump in scoring. But th Sowers is doing Neil Barrett: I mean @HootSportsMedia: this every single year, but the same pace. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One hundred percent. My this is this l I I think I said this several weeks ago that that people want to act like Michael Sowers is only doing this because CJ curse is on his team. It's like, no, Michael Sowers has been doing this for years now. You know, like this is who he has been. And sure, CJ helps, just like CJ being on any team would help that team offensively. He's a very good player. Like you'd be crazy to say that CJ isn't affecting things in any way. Like that's ridiculous. But the idea that that Michael Sowers is only doing it because CJ Kurs is on the roster is just ridiculous. the the other thing to like what you're talking about here, we you talked about setting a precedence. The the pre the precedence was set here. Marcus Holman set this record. He broke his own record, set this record, led the league in points that year with 44, which is, I believe, off the top of my head, I believe it's 10 more points than what CJ Kirst had this year in the same number of games, and yet wasn't. the MVP that year. And we didn't even look at it then and b and think it was all that crazy. Like, sure, there were people who thought Marcus Holman should have been the MVP that season, but we all saw what Tom Schreiber did that year and we're like, yeah, it kind of feels like Tom Schreiber's year. And and a again, it's a regular season award, but you know, we the Archers had had that great year and and ultimately won the championship and stuff. So I I don't I don't remember too many people being that upset when Tom Schreiber beat Marcus Holman, despite breaking the same record that CJ Kirst did, doing it with more points, and leading the league in points. Like, and yet this year everyone is like, no, he's gotta win it because he broke that record. And it's like I I just don't think that that's enough. And like you said, I I actually have Dan's list, well, not his whole list, but where he differed. He had Sowers as MVP. Read his article, he will explain why he had he had Chris Bates as coach. I I basically reading through Dan Orestia's list, I was like, yep, yep. And even the few places where I disagreed with him, short stick defensive midfielder, he had Piper Bond. I I agreed with Brian Tevlin for that award, but he had Piper Bond for for short stick defensive midfield, and being able to read his logic and why. he did it. It was like, hey, I can't argue with it. I I can I can disagree. I can think I can weigh things differently, but I can't argue with his logic. Like, you know, and I and I wish that more people would put that out. so yeah, that being said, CJ is the third youngest MVP of all time. the youngest since Paul Rabel in 2009. I think I think it's Rabel in 2009 and then Ryan Powell in 2001, the very first MVP are the only two that are younger than him. By the way, we don't talk about Ryan Powell enough. We should really talk about that dude significantly more. Yeah, I I think that's I think that's kind of it. The WLL awards also were handed out no surprises there whatsoever. That went exactly how we expected it to. Bridget Duffy was named the MVP deserve it. you know, I I don't I'm not even sure they're there are any arguments on that. we did get Rachel Clark, one one attacker of the year. again, I think that was deserved. what else did they have Coach of the Year was the I've totally forgotten her name, Emily Perros, I think is her name. the head coach of the charm. Again, deserved. and then I don't even remember Abby Bosco, defender, and then Bridget Duffy was MB was midfielder of the year as well. Just an insane year from from Bridget Duffy. I don't know I don't know if you have anything to add to that. I th I mean that's that's exactly what we predicted two weeks ago or whenever it was. So yeah. Alright, let's let's take a little look back before we before we shift gears over to the NLL for a little bit. Let's take a look back. I thought it would be fun to talk about what what we predicted at the end of last season for this season. and then maybe we'll make some similar predictions for next season. let's let's see let's see if you remember any of those. Who did you pick as the PLO champion? @HootSportsMedia: Are you asking me a question? Neil Barrett: No, I Yeah. Yeah, I said who who @HootSportsMedia: I thought you were like playing a video. Sorry. I was like waiting, I like I don't see any video Neil Barrett: no, I @HootSportsMedia: playing. Neil Barrett: I was gonna play I was gonna play videos, but I was like, you what, with my internet connection right now, it it's gonna be a mess. Yeah, if you if you remember. If you don't, that's fine, I got it. @HootSportsMedia: Okay. So you're asking who I had as as who I had as the champion in like June? Neil Barrett: No this No this was @HootSportsMedia: Or when di this was preseason? Neil Barrett: this was at the end of last season. Like at this time last year we @HootSportsMedia: holy cow Neil Barrett: made predictions. @HootSportsMedia: I probably said the Denver Outlaws at that point. Neil Barrett: You you did say the Denver Outlaws. I feel like I feel like that's a pretty good pick. actually we both picked the Denver Outlaws. I feel I feel like I feel i I feel pretty good in that in that pick. That was not a that was not a bad pick on our part. @HootSportsMedia: I mean when when we made that pick that I felt absolutely confident in that. It just you know, after the watching them play Neil Barrett: And I mean @HootSportsMedia: the season, I like, I dunno Neil Barrett: But they made the game, so again, I f I feel I don't I'm not embarrassed by that pick. I I'm not embarrassed. @HootSportsMedia: I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. Neil Barrett: let's see here. we asked who would be the bigger the biggest mover in the standings. Who do you think you said? @HootSportsMedia: man. What were the standings that year? Let's see. It would have been I had to have said the archers. Neil Barrett: You did say the Archers, and I @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, yeah. Neil Barrett: don't know I don't know if it's mathematically correct, but certainly I @HootSportsMedia: Feels correct. Neil Barrett: don't think you were wrong. Yeah, I don't think you were wrong. I said Carolina. I'm pretty sure they went down, so not great on my part. I don't even remember asking this. we asked who would be the busiest team in the offseason. @HootSportsMedia: I feel like I would have said Carolina. Neil Barrett: You said Utah @HootSportsMedia: Cool. Neil Barrett: mostly through who they would lose, 'cause cause at the time we thought Connor Fields and Mac O'Keefe were leaving. You also @HootSportsMedia: Yes, yes, I Neil Barrett: you also thought Utah would trade for Zed Williams. And then obviously they w @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, that w that was definitely more wishful thinking on my part. Neil Barrett: Why, 'cause you really wanted Zed in Utah? @HootSportsMedia: No, I just wanted Zed to play and I felt like, you know, the writing was on the wall there in in Maryland. and I was I was kinda pushing, I was like, it makes sense that they're gonna trade him anyway and I was looking around the league at like who could really want him. That's why when the trade to to Philly happened, I like this is like what? Like I got the trade Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: part right, but I was just very confused by that. and yeah, I mean Utah did change a lot in the draft, I guess, but you know, that's interesting. Neil Barrett: I d I don't hate the Utah call. I don't hate the Utah call. Because because they changed so much, not just not just their roster, although they they changed a lot on their roster, but they also completely like revamped the way they played. So I I'm not mad at Utah. I I think there's a case for that to be correct. So i y so far you're kind of three for three. I said the Redwoods, I don't @HootSportsMedia: I'll take it. I'll take it. I am surprised I didn't say Carolina, but Neil Barrett: I you know? let's see, what what else are some things that you said? You said that you thought Denver would draft one or two polls. They did not draft did they did they draft a poll? @HootSportsMedia: I don't know. I tried to erase that draft from my memory. I can't even tell you. I I don't I don't think they did. Neil Barrett: you know what? They I'm sure they didn't, right? 'Cause they 'cause they got rid of so many of their picks. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, no. Neil Barrett: But they but they did go get Ben Randall, so not exactly wrong. Let's see. okay, that that was I don't know why you said that and I didn't have a I didn't have a a comparable thing. points leader total. How how many points do you think you said the points leader would have? Admittedly, at the time that we made this, we did not know that there would be a 12 game season. We thought it would still be a 10 game season. @HootSportsMedia: Right. I probably said like forty four. Neil Barrett: You said forty five. I said @HootSportsMedia: I was gonna say forty five and I was like no, I'll go with the round number. That's tough. Neil Barrett: I said forty-eight. which you know are not correct, but given that they played two extra games, I feel like we're we're right there. We're we're right there. @HootSportsMedia: Yep, pace wise. Neil Barrett: Yeah, yeah. and then finally the regular season VP. Who did who did you think it would be? @HootSportsMedia: Lord. I I definitely said Brennan O'Neal. Neil Barrett: You did not Brennan O'Neill. @HootSportsMedia: okay, okay, good, okay, good. Who did I say? Neil Barrett: You said Brett Dobson. @HootSportsMedia: that's on track. That's on track. I'm t I'm counting that one. He he was he was in the convos. Neil Barrett: I said Listen, listen to what I said. I said Michael Sowers. And then I said, no wait. CJ cursed will take touches away from him. So I think I s I think I ultimately kind of stayed with Michael Sowers. Like I just kind of went with it. But I also, because CJ was gonna take touches away from Michael Sowers, I also we also talked about maybe Liam Intamin or Asher Nulting, which is hilarious, Asher Nulting. and then Liam Intamin had like a He didn't have a terrible season. He did not have a Liam Intamin style season. but I think it's really funny that between the two of us, we got the three the three main guys from the season, Brett Dawson, Michael Sowers, and CJ @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, yeah. That's good stuff right there. Neil Barrett: Kurz. So all right. With that being said, let's let's look forward and make some of the the same predictions. for next season. We'll start with biggest mover next year. @HootSportsMedia: like standings wise, you mean? Neil Barrett: Yeah, who who will move up in the standings the most. Although technically I said biggest mover. I guess it could be down if you want. @HootSportsMedia: Okay, okay. Well and we're t we're doing we're not doing conference wise, we're just doing overall one through eight. Neil Barrett: Yeah, let's do overall because confront conference can get funky. Let's do overall. @HootSportsMedia: Okay. Okay. Well, I wasn't at conference and I'm like the West has two teams at six and six. I'm like both you know, they could be top. Man, let's see, let's see. It's tough 'cause all the teams that I normally would say I feel like kind of moved up this year, I I thought. I'm gonna say New York. I think they bounce back, you know, three and nine. I think you know, they win three more games in their fourth place. Tied for t tied for fourth. So Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: I'll take I'll take New York next year. Neil Barrett: New New York is definitely I think the easy choice on this for the sake of being different. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, it's a cop out, but Neil Barrett: Yeah, for the sake of being different and not, you know, copping out even though, you know, like I get it. I'll I'll No, you know what? I'm gonna go @HootSportsMedia: Don't do it. Neil Barrett: a different way. What? @HootSportsMedia: Just just say who you're gonna just say who was moving. Yeah. Neil Barrett: I'm gonna go the other way. I'm gonna I'm gonna say Denver's going down. @HootSportsMedia: Okay, yeah. Neil Barrett: What did you think? What did what were you expecting me to say? @HootSportsMedia: I th I thought you were going Carolina, like a hundred percent. Neil Barrett: I need to see them put together some defense. I th some offense, I mean. I think I think at least in the immediate future, you know, next season, that defense should still be pretty good. They just locked in Blaze. They're not losing anyone, assuming Jack Rallette is back, which as of right this second, I I don't have any reason to believe he won't be back next season. I'm not really worried about their defense. I just need them. and Hilt was down this year. I'm not sold on anyone on that offense other than Chad Palumbo. so they gotta they gotta make some big moves before I'm I'm willing to throw anything their way. I don't I don't care how they do it. I don't care if they go pick up some free agents, I don't care if they draft 150 guys, like I don't care what they do. They gotta figure something out. now that being said, they did deal with some injuries. I think they started to maybe figure out what the future of that offense looks like with Teddy Malone. as much as we gave him crap before the PL season started. what's his name? From Maryland. Eric Spanos, I think played decently well. it was really those those guys that that you had come to rely on that in a weird way had decent seasons, but they just weren't the the high level guys that you needed them to be Owen Hilts, Jackson Iker, Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch, all of them felt like they kind of regressed back. so yeah, I'm not I'm not really inclined to give them much credit until I see them do something. Ask me in, you know March of next year after they've they've gone through some free agency and stuff, maybe I'll have a different feeling. Maybe after the draft. But right here, right now, I I got nothing for him. Meanwhile, I think I think Denver could regress a decent amount. You gotta assume Mike Manley's probably done. We don't know about Pat. I think you and I expect him to be back, but you never know. He's a free agent. He could he could go anywhere. He could be anywhere. I I don't think that their midfield ha is worth much of anything. they've they've got a whole lot to figure out. Again, you know, we talked about goalies. Logan McNaney didn't look great most of this season. Hopefully he he gets that back, but again, until I really see it, I got no reason to to believe it will be. So yeah, I think I think they could I think they could plummet f three or four or five spots. I don't I don't remember where exactly they were. Maybe they don't have five spots to plummet, but they could they could @HootSportsMedia: Therefore, that six and six. Neil Barrett: end up okay. If if they were last, and I'm not saying they will be. Mm, probably more like seventh. but if they were last n next year, I wouldn't be hugely shocked. But we'll also see because because along with Mike Manley, there's a there's a decent chance Tim Sudan is done and who knows who they bring in and how that changes things. So there's a lot up in the air with them, but that's who I'll go with. @HootSportsMedia: Eric Law Eric Law Eric Law Eric Law. Who was that? I saw him in the wind there. Interesting. Neil Barrett: yeah. Yeah, interesting that the wind sounded like the name Eric Law there. It's crazy how that worked. @HootSportsMedia: I I don't know, that's crazy. That the wind the wind has some bald knowledge, I guess. I don't know. That's Neil Barrett: along along with that, who who will be the busiest team in the offseason? @HootSportsMedia: Definitely not the Philadelphia Water Dogs. Neil Barrett: Do do the Philadelphia Water Dogs need anything? Because a before you answer @HootSportsMedia: I don't think they needed anything all year and they kept adding guys. Neil Barrett: Before you fully answer, even though you just did, let me say sometimes I think staying on top isn't about keeping what you're doing, it's staying ahead of cause you know, everyone's gonna load up and try and stop what you've built. And so there's a there's an element of like trying to stay ahead. Is there anything that they need or or you know, what do they need to stay ahead? @HootSportsMedia: Think they're already ahead. I don't I don't know there's anything they they need too much. again they're midfield. They they have so many guys they can rotate in that I can't even say midfield 'cause technically they already have everybody. I I'm gonna go out on a limb and I'm gonna say Maryland is the busiest. Neil Barrett: Okay. I like that. @HootSportsMedia: Not necessarily because I think they have a lot of like pieces they need to replace per se. But I think they may look at their team right now as we should be better than we are. And I feel like they're kinda reaching that stagnant sort of place of just like big talent but not producing any return anymore. So I could Neil Barrett: Mm-hmm. @HootSportsMedia: see them kinda changing some things up. Who knows if I mean I would assume Pennell's done. Maybe he's not, but even if he's not done, I could see them moving on anyway. you know, moving some guys down to attack, maybe opening up some midfield spots. So I'll I'll take Maryland. Neil Barrett: you know, I I don't hate that at all. I I think I think they've got some changes. Like you said, whether or not Rob comes back, they still have some changes that they they probably need to make. I I think I think that midfield could get better. I think that defense could get better. Like you said, that midfield could especially get better if you if you're gonna, you know, kind of permanently move TJ down to fill Rob's spot or you know, like there's gonna be some some things that they can or or maybe it's not maybe it's not TJ. I can't remember what w we talked about this the last episode we did. @HootSportsMedia: It and Carol, most likely. Neil Barrett: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Moving it so it'd be so it'd be Aiden, TJ, and Joey down low, yeah. Okay. @HootSportsMedia: That's what I think. Neil Barrett: Which would pretty much leave just Patra as kind of their like lone, like really good midfielder, right? @HootSportsMedia: Brandau That's all I can think of. Neil Barrett: Yeah. so yeah, anyway, I I don't I don't hate that call at all. I will I will agree with that, but also say the team that needs to be the busiest, we just talked about Carolina. Carolina needs to be the busiest team. So I'll I'll pick Carolina even though I don't don't disagree with your answer. Carolina being the busiest mover kind of feels like suggesting the biggest or the busiest team. being Carolina kind of feels like what you were just saying about New York being the the biggest mover. Like it just feels like such an obvious one. It feels almost like cheating. let's move over to the points leader. what what do you think about that one? I'm assuming a another twelve game season. Savours had fifty one this year. @HootSportsMedia: Jeff T. Neil Barrett: Sorry, points total. @HootSportsMedia: Points. Neil Barrett: Yeah. The n the number. @HootSportsMedia: I thought you were saying the leader. I'll go I'll go forty nine. Neil Barrett: Forty nine. Okay. I'm gonna say 53. So there's a there's a little bit of a of a change between us. that fifty that fifty point mark. I I don't hate the the Jeff Teat though. That I I feel like he should he'll probably come in with it with a big thing. le let's just move in regular season MVP. Would it be Jeff Teat then? @HootSportsMedia: It would if that happens. But I could could hedge my bets here and take someone else. Neil Barrett: Your bets. Like we're not gonna just laugh at our picks. @HootSportsMedia: I could I could I could just take someone who could have wanted the last two years and say Brad Dobson next year gets over the hump. And I think I will do that and take Brad Dobson. Neil Barrett: Honestly, I was thinking about Brad Dobson too. For the sake of being different from you, I will go in a different, a very different direction and say Marcus Holman. @HootSportsMedia: I I almost took him. And then I was like, Nah, Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: he's gonna put up a bunch of points and I don't I still don't know if they'll give it to him like Neil Barrett: Maybe that's that's probably a thing is that they won't even if he you know leads the league in points, they still won't give it to him. Again, that's the precedent that's been set. but I I think Boston should be really good again, and he will be a big part of that. So I I'm gonna I'm gonna go with him, even though I think Brett Thompson is a great great call. And honestly, Jeff Teat is too. I I mean you could you could pick Jeff Teat every year. I think it's it's kinda like it's like Michael Sowers, but it's the it's the flip side of that coin where Michael Sowers could do everything Jeff Teat does and they probably won't give it to him. And Jeff Teat could do everything Michael Sowers does and they will give it to him. So, you know. and then the last one, PLL champion. Who who you thinking? @HootSportsMedia: fairly. Neil Barrett: I mean obviously there's there's nothing to say they won't. They I think they very clearly have the best team right right now. @HootSportsMedia: I don't th just think they have the best team. I think they have a team that's so far ahead that they would have to actively do something wrong, like purposely, to drop down a few pegs. And I'm not sure that any team can add enough in one offseason to, you know you know, knock them down. Now, this is assuming everyone's healthy, so let's hope everyone stays healthy in which case, but Neil Barrett: We can't we can't predict injuries, so I won't I won't you know prognosticate about that part about the overall health. What I will say is I can see a scenario where Sean Byrne is either somewhat in and out of the lineup or or just you know regresses back a little bit. I mean he could He could fall back slightly, still be very good and you know, and and it not be enough. Also, that midfield I think could also regress. Joshiago, another guy that's got military commitments, even though i indications are that he will be fine to play. I do I do wonder so much of that midfield. Is was fresh out of college. And I think rookies often come in. They are maybe not fresh in the sense of like they did just finish a whole season. So there there is some wear there, but they're in the best shape they're probably ever going to be in. They are in the best lacrosse shape they are ever going to be in. While I wouldn't expect Josh Yago to lose his physical fitness. Will he be in lacrosse shape? Will he be that well taken care of? I could see that going another way, especially with all the other rookies as well. They will still have, you know, Jack Hannah and stuff, so there will still be some things. The other question for me is how much longer is Kier McCardle around? I don't know that he's gone this year, but if he does. You wouldn't be wholly shocked, which means that would probably pull Silas Richmond down at that point. How that affects things, you never know. that being said, again, you're probably not wrong. I I don't think it's a bad pick at all. Obviously, they are so good. for the sake of being different. I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna go I think I'm gonna go Archers. I think I'm gonna go Archers. I really wanna say Boston, but they just have such a tendency to lose when they when they when it matters. Like i I don't know what it is. They just they just can't seem to pull it off unless it's the championship series, apparently. so yeah, I think I'm I think I'm gonna go with with the Archers there. So any any other predictions you got? Just Off the top of your head, just no stradomasing. @HootSportsMedia: Mike Manley comes back for another year. Neil Barrett: I I wouldn't I wouldn't say you're wrong. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, that's my hot Neil Barrett: There's a @HootSportsMedia: take. Neil Barrett: Th I feel like that man may literally have to be carried off of the field i in order to call @HootSportsMedia: Yep. Yep. Neil Barrett: it quits. he's he's just such a a look rosse player. Like I I just don't I I would hope that if he does come back that they they you know, kinda move him to that that third that tertiary role, and let, you know, Ben Randall come in and and be that that kind of number two role, but you know, I d I don't know. But I I don't I don't hate that at all. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. it Asher Nolton, Miles Jones, any of those kind of big name guys that that missed out on this season, they're gonna be on a team next year. @HootSportsMedia: Asher will Miles will not. I'm not saying that Miles won't get like a training camp invite, but I don't think he'll be on a roster. Neil Barrett: What's funny is apparently the secret to winning a championship is to put Miles Jones on your training camp roster and then drop him. Cause two years in a row he has been on a training camp roster, dropped, and that team has won. So Carolina, you know what you gotta do. @HootSportsMedia: Although I will say I I I mean I think there are probably a couple of teams that might give him a shot. Like I know Philly I think kept him on through like week one or something like that, if I'm not mistaken. I could see that situation playing out again. But I think a Neil Barrett: I I think it was a couple of weeks, but yeah. @HootSportsMedia: yeah, but I think Asher's one that will like actively play. Again, I think Carolina Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: potentially could make sense. I still think Utah could probably make sense depending on how they wanna, you know, move forward. trying to th yeah, actually it's really just those two teams, so maybe not. That's a I just can't see someone like him sitting out for for too long. But who knows? Neil Barrett: I don't think it happens. I could see a scenario where maybe Maryland goes for him. I don't think it happens. But if if if Rob leaves, I think the idea is that if Rob leaves, like we talked about, that Aiden Carol comes down, it's it's those three. But if Asher's sitting there and you can bring him in, keep Aiden Carol in your midfield. Maybe. it probably doesn't happen, but it's a it's a thing I can see logically that that could work. Any any way that you can see him in Denver? He is a he is a Colorado guy. @HootSportsMedia: I thought about it, but but no. Not not right now. We'll say that. Neil Barrett: I'm just wondering if like if if @HootSportsMedia: I Neil Barrett: there's a way to make it make sense. @HootSportsMedia: well, I mean, a Neil Barrett: Probably @HootSportsMedia: s my other hot take that f well connect the dots here is that JB Ten is retiring. even if he doesn't retire, I don't know that he stays on the outlaws. Now granted he's a midfielder, so take this with a grain of salt, but you know, if you say he's gone and you bump Whiz slash Bo to MIDI, even just half the time, maybe it does make sense. The caveat to this is like Jake Taylor, I think needs to play as well. I think he fits better at attack, naturally. Not saying he can't r you know, run midi, but so from that standpoint it's like is there space? I almost think if they're gonna add an offensive player, it will be a midfielder like a Miles Jones Neil Barrett: Mm-hmm. @HootSportsMedia: or, you know, someone else sitting there. Just I said it all year. You look you look at their games, most of their games that they lost, it's because they had no midfield production. at least consistently. So Yeah, I know they tried some things this year with like with Nolan Byrne and Dunfey, I think is how you say his name from Princeton. You know, they're gonna help I guess those guys progress, but I could absolutely see them maybe giving Asher a call mid season, but I don't think he'll be like a training camp, you know, come trying to make the roster kinda deal. Neil Barrett: Yeah, it's it's funny because it I think you're probably right that that right here, right now, it feels like Asher is almost definitely on somebody's roster. Again, Carol there are a few teams where like he can just go and slot right in. Like Carolina, I I think he is a a day one starter and plays all season. But in a lot of ways it feels like there's almost more teams that need a Miles Jones. Even though I think you're right that Asher is the more likely to be kind of a a full year starter and that Miles Jones might be a a a a late ad. But it but it does kind of feel like some I also wonder I wonder if with Steven Brooks gone, if he couldn't end up back in in New York. I think we've all kind of assumed that because you know, the last team that he really played for was New York that he wouldn't go back. But they've had so much turnover there that like, you know, is that is that actually a possibility now? 'cause th their midfield was not good. I mean, Brian Costabil aside, their midfield was not good. so maybe there's a there's a shot for him to come back to New York, but Interesting interesting thought. I I hadn't really thought much about that. And I I do think I agree with you though. I think I think I think Asher is definitely on a team next year. and and and Miles Miles might be a a late ad. But all right. Let's move over to the NLL. They had quite the two weeks since we last did an episode The day after, literally well no, the day we released the episode, our last episode, the NLL announced that Ottawa and Philadelphia were officially folding and that the teams would be dispersed through a dispersal draft. not not a surprise about Ottawa and Philly folding we talked about that it it's been a long time coming. I did want to ask you before we get into the actual dispersal draft. I I think that we have talked about kind of why this has happened and everything and and getting down to twelve and now they can kind of focus on this twelve and and kind of look forward and and and kind of move forward with these twelve teams and then hopefully at some point start expanding again, but expanding in a much more controlled and and beneficial way than they did in this previous round of expansion where I believe all of the those teams have folded. No, V I guess Vegas, @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Neil Barrett: right? @HootSportsMedia: yeah. yeah, I guess so. That I I I recognize that that it's from that era. I don't really cons even think of them in that vein because I think Josai owns them and he's you know of in a different atmosphere. But yeah, I guess technically that they would be added. I actually San Diego would be as well, no? I think so. But again, both Josai teams, so a l a little bit different situation. Neil Barrett: It I just wondered. Yeah. but my my question for you, because there's been so much especially from, you know, largely f the field audience who isn't really, you know, in tune with the NL. lots of them I I've seen so many people who think the NL is dying. and while it it may be not as strong as as we once thought it was. I I don't think it's dying. I they still have fifty percent more teams than the PL does. They're spread out all across the country. They play home games. Like I I think I think both leagues have pluses and minuses and the fans on either side tend to overstate their pluses, understate their minuses when talking about the differences. But all that to say, the question I had for you is, what do you think the right number of teams for the NLL is from the standpoint of let's let's remove money, let's assume money isn't an issue, ownership isn't an issue. purely for the size of of the talent pool that's available. Cause I started I started looking at like the dispersal draft and then obviously the entry draft, both which we'll get to in just a second, and seeing how much more Concentrated the talent pools are now. And the idea that that Toronto just won the championship. They have a very young, very good roster. And yet, if they don't win a title in the next 10 years, I'm not sure you'd be all that surprised because so many of these teams have gotten so much better. And I I just wonder, you know, we talk in the PL all the time about how, they should expand, they should expand. obviously again, money is the big reason why they aren't, and that I think is a smart decision. So removing money aside, what what do you think the talent pool right now would support? What's the right number of teams? @HootSportsMedia: I would say probably like sixteen would be the first number I'd start with. I'd go maybe as high as twenty, but I'd I'd definitely cap out there for now. again, this is just on the fly. I I would have to look deeper into it. But I think you need enough, you know, top tier goalies to make that make sense first and foremost. Like i i you know, if you had twenty teams, are there twenty truly starting caliber goalies, or are we seeing eighteen goals per game on each side every night because the goalie play isn't up there would be my my biggest question. But I think a lot about like like I'll talk about Colorado f as a perfect example. Like Dylan Ward had a great year last year and I think you saw Nate Wittham come in in in relief and he was exceptional. You look at his numbers, you look at his play, you look at what he he just won a minto cup in junior lacrosse. He was one of the best goalies in the country. He could start, in my opinion, and and maybe that's just me, you know, with my burgundy colored blinders on there, but like he's like a backup that I think could start. You know, you hear a lot about guys like Deacon Knott Who around the league, people seem to love him, but he's a backup everywhere he goes. You know, all of a sudden instead of Georgia having him and Brett Dobson, now they have one and one of them starting somewhere else. So I think sixteen makes a lot of sense from that standpoint. I also just look at a lot of the veterans right now that are just not gonna be on teams. Like, I know Dawson J. Nielsen this week put out a whole thing about, you know, the free agents. I was looking at the list and I'm like, dude, like you wanna talk about the PLL and how many guys should be playing, like We're talking about NL guys who have been around the league for a decade plus and aren't even gonna get a look. And I think especially now that Americans I think are are making it more of a priority I'll I'll say to play box and go try out the NL. Now you're seeing teams like San Diego where like half their offense is all field guys, American field players. Well that then inherently bumps out, you know, the stereotypical box guys who then you go see them play in summer box in Canada. whatever level it is, senior A, B, whatever, and they're dominating. And then that's when the questions pop up of like, why isn't this guy in the N L L? And it's like, well, because there's no space. Like there's if I already know this guy over here, why am I bumping him for this guy that has only performed, quote unquote, in summer ball? so long answer, but I would say probably sixteen would be like a a solid number. I think you saw when we had fifteen teams how how much talent there was and you saw a lot of guys like Nick Day Mood starting on in PCLC and everyone's like, like he's actually pretty good. And now that's why you saw him go play for now two other teams technically. and now he's like a premier goalie for Vegas. So you know, it's tough to say, especially money wise. I don't know how close we are to that at all anyway, but that'd be kind of fun to think about. Neil Barrett: Yeah, no, and I and I like you said, the money's not there. I I think I think they sit at twelve for for the next two, three, four seasons before even really kind of considering let let this kind of balance out. I I think I think like th this is the reason why the PL has not tried to to grow Beyond eight at this point. They they have other things that they want to accomplish to help grow this league before they start looking at adding teams. And yes, unfortunately, that means that some guys are gonna miss opportunities, but By and large, I think, you know, the the cream kinda rises to the top and and the best guys are playing generally speaking. You know, but some some guy here or there is definitely gonna fall through the cracks, but you know, it is what it is. So let's get into the actual dispersal draft. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, and and real quick too, like before we move on to that, you mentioned like, you know, the whole field versus box fans as far as propping up their own leagues with you know, and ignoring the flaws. Like I've seen a lot of field fans kind of like take jabs and be like, Well, this is why you don't expand and do like the the NL did this a long time ago. Like they didn't do a tour model. Like if they started today, I I think I I've talked I think I've talked about this on here. If they started today, they'd probably look at the P L L and Hey, that tour model's working out. We might want to consider doing something like that. and take a more conservative approach and have less franchises. But they didn't do that forty years ago, thir you know, and so on. So now they're just kind of having to course correct. So the idea that like we're we're propping up one league and putting the other down, still to this day, is mind boggling to me. like to me I look at this situation with the NLM and be like, this is why the P L L's not expanding and it's not like a see this is why it's so much better 'cause they haven't expanded. It's just like we need to use this and learn from it over here. And Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: you know, usher in Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: a a expansion at the appropriate time. Just wanted to get that out there. I feel like I say this every single year 'cause I keep seeing on Twitter and you fools keep getting me, so congrats for rage baiting me I guess, but just had to say that. Neil Barrett: No, I'm I'm with you. That the the the tribalism of the the leagues is the goofiest thing and I I just I don't I don't get it and on it honestly I think one of the the best cases, the best kind of like arguments in my mind for the idea the the theoretical idea. I don't think it would happen Unless one of the two leagues got into like some very dire financial straits, kind of like the MLL PL did, and it just became financially way more feasible that one kind of cannibalized the other. but in in a lot of ways at least the working relationship that they that they're starting to to really kind of like develop and cultivate now. I I think that they are both so good at what the other one needs to be good at. I I think the NLL needs the the what the PL has in terms of being agile and and forward thinking and being kind of ahead of the curve on a lot of these things. you know whereas conversely the PLL I think needs A little bit more of that like traditional like home market sports league, you know, foundational stuff that Brett Frude and the NLL kind of excel at. And and you know, if we could get if we could get just like one super brain trust together to run both of these leagues, I think they'd both be so much better for it. But we're We're going off into all these different tangents. Let's talk about the actual dispersal draft. I think to the surprise of no one. Obviously Jeff Teat went number one to Oshawa almost overnight. you know, Oshawa looks r like real tough. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, they got better. They got better. I'm not giving them that that title until I see play. You know, they I mean they made the N L L finals and then came back and were awful. So let me also let me see play first. Neil Barrett: That's true. @HootSportsMedia: But yes, I will agree that their their roster definitely out even outside of just Jeff T looks looks a lot better. Neil Barrett: yeah. @HootSportsMedia: So and the fact that they even took Connor Kiernan and then were like, Yeah, we're actually just gonna trade you because we have Holden Garland on the way. Like that's Great pickup by them defensively too, so yeah. And that's not even including the the you know, Neil Barrett: Yeah. I @HootSportsMedia: the entry draft. Neil Barrett: Yeah, I it feels like Yes, through through the dispersal draft and and any any of the the kind of free agent moves that they made, it felt like they already addressed pretty much everything. And then and then the the entry draft was just kind of like icing on that cake. number two, N Nick DeMude was selected by the Las Vegas Desert Dogs. I think that was pretty obviously what they were gonna do. They have needed a number one goalie basically since they got started. and Nick Daymood should be that guy for them. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, I was still shocked they didn't take Callum Jones, I will say. again, not because I disagree with the day mood pick, I just felt like based on their history, they've sort of always taken like at best available, I guess the best way to put it. as opposed to like what they need. And so I was like, they're for sure just gonna take Callum as like, you know, the best defender in the league. So I was actually kinda surprised and and both I think that I think that move made them incredibly dangerous just based on the way they looked last year. And that's not including like the other rounds which we'll get to that they they added some depth to. So I that's a good p it's a sneaky good pick. I I recognize it's the second pick, but I still think it's a sneaky good pick. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Callum Jones speaking of went to Rochester at three. again, in terms of like need, that they needed that. They needed that. So you know, the the first three picks I think went the more or less the way that that you would expect. I think How did the Georgia Swarm get the pick from Calgary? Was that all was that that was draft night, right? Or d or afternoon or whenever they did it. That was decided during the draft. @HootSportsMedia: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a live a live trade, yeah. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah, they traded and and I think we all thought that they were gonna go grab Brennan O'Neill. they did not. They @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Neil Barrett: picked up Lucas Nielsen. which I think was kind of shocking in the moment. The more I looked at it, the more it started to make sense. He's a right hander. They needed they really needed a right hand offensive player, pretty much the only one they have. The only high level one they have i is Lyle. l so in that sense if you're if you're deciding between Lucas Nielsen and Brennan O'Neal, you needed the right hander more. So in that sense it i it made a a little more sense, even though it was kind of shocking in the moment. I think we all thought Brennan O'Neal was joining L Lyle Thompson when they made that move. which meant that at number five, San Diego was able to pick up Brennan O'Neal. He now joins Pat Kavanaugh. they will be playing year round together, which is fascinating. And we'll talk about it in the entry draft. It it feels like maybe something that some people are considering. i when making some of these decisions is like who they could be paired with and and and familiarity with those. So that's an interesting thing. what do you what do you think about that that pairing in in San Diego? @HootSportsMedia: think it makes a lot of sense for them, just honestly their this is gonna sound so weird because they went to the conference finals or semifinals, it's called now, but like their offensive fall from Grace is just crazy on paper from the last couple of seasons. And to see the way that they completely have shifted away from full box guys to almost full field guys now. I I recognize Chris only played two games and Pat has been in and out of lineup with injuries and whatnot, but like You're looking at Chris Pat and Brendan now. you have Wes Berg, you know, still there, but I I don't believe they've re-signed Corey Small yet. Neil Barrett: Trey Leclerc. @HootSportsMedia: Traylaire, they just lost Jake Govitt to Vegas today, actually, as well. So just seeing that shift is is crazy. to me, this signals that Brennan is actually gonna play NLL for the foreseeable future, not just like I mean maybe it's a one year kind of thing we'll see, but I think w anytime you can play with a guy you're familiar with. Especially in h in in this situation where it's like American field guys, I think that's good and I think playing for an owner that actually cares about lacrosse is huge too because you're gonna see him. Like you're gonna see him at at games from time to time and you know he's gonna take care of you. They just moved to a new facility as well. So i especially after Calgary traded out, I think you and I both were like, George is gonna take him and then they didn't and it was like, Okay, well San Diego has to take him, like you can't pass him up as long as he's Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: willing to play. So I like it. I hate as a mamma fan, but I like it as a NLL fan. Neil Barrett: Ha ha. I'm gonna go through the rest of the I only did the first round of i I'll let you kinda go over what else you liked. but I'm gonna go through this relatively quickly and then we can kinda talk about it. Halifax at six picked up Matt Mariner. Mariner or Marinet? @HootSportsMedia: Mira Morinier, Marinier. Neil Barrett: What? How is that? Alright, whatever. No, @HootSportsMedia: Marin, yay. Trust me. Neil Barrett: no, no, I get I get it. I I get it. But you know, like @HootSportsMedia: I don't know. Neil Barrett: there's there's the hockey player, there's and the hockey player and the lacrosse player at at Ohio State both have that same last name and it's not pronounced that way. @HootSportsMedia: That's his That's his little brother. That's Matt's little brother. Alex Marinier from Neil Barrett: Who? The one at Ohio State? @HootSportsMedia: from Ohio State got drafted by the Thunderbirds, and that's why they selected Matt Marinier. Neil Barrett: I have n I have never once heard anyone call the kid at Ohio State who's apparently graduated. I've always heard Alex Marin Marinier Mariner? I can't even say it now. It's so I'm like so in my head about it, I can't even say it. @HootSportsMedia: Maybe I'm saying it wrong. That's just how I've always heard it. I don't know. Neil Barrett: No, I I have heard it the way that you're s like when you said it, I was like, I have heard people say that. but I didn't know they were I didn't know that they were brothers. Although funny that @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Neil Barrett: you say that because I did see someone mention something about how Halifax now has like several bro I think they have maybe they have two brother combos and somebody was talking about they should get Matt Hosick now and there were there was a potential for them to get like four brother combos or something. but it never occurred to me that that's who they were talking about. So that's really funny. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Neil Barrett: anyway I said we're gonna go through these quickly and then we stopped on the first one. Colorado, your boys got Alex Pace Georgia Swarm got Deke and not Buffalo Bandits, Zach Higgins, Saskatchewan Rush, Jake Stevens. the Buffalo Bandits from Vancouver got Dalton Young. And then to finish out the first round, the Las Vegas Desert Dogs got Mitchell Armstrong. Okay. Presumably you want to talk about Colorado. I didn't realize Colorado was the next one. I could have stopped again. But yeah, just the the rest of that first round, what you got? @HootSportsMedia: yeah, no, I like I like that we took Alex's pace. Again, I was convinced we're taking Connor Kiernan, even though he's an Eastern guy. I still was like he's coming here. but I like the fact that we bolstered the defense, especially thinking about our free agents and that type of stuff, and you know, Dylan Hess out for their at least half the year with that ACL. I it was shocking to me that Deacon not went before Zach Higgins. again, this is Neil Barrett: I'd agree. @HootSportsMedia: assuming I I I don't know if How many of these guys were like, hey, this is my short list of teams? Like that could very well have happened in Neil Barrett: That's fair. @HootSportsMedia: but but in my head at least, it makes more I I know I I guess I shouldn't really be I shouldn't be too shocked because like Georgia has Brett Dobson, but in my head Zach Higgins is more of a starter right now than Deacon Nod is. So I just seeing it on papers is interesting. If anything, I thought Halifax could have taken Zach Higgins before. I mean we just saw Warren Hill re-sign on a one year deal. One year deals are are very common in the NL, but it still could be a prove it type deal there. But obviously they they trusted him. and so then just kind of seeing Georgia take a backup to Brett, I thought was was solid but still very interesting. Dalton Young being taken eleventh, I thought was was crazy 'cause he's not, you know, a a huge like box guy overall, but he he looked good in Philly. It just was kinda like, like that's that was cool. Mitchell Armstrong again, like Vegas is gonna be scary this year. They might be my dark horse, honestly, just looking at their ads. I I just it it's truly Neil Barrett: Yeah. Not I don't @HootSportsMedia: Crazy. Neil Barrett: Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm with you. That I think again we I was just talking about like the concentration of talent. Like Vegas looks like they could be really good. I agree with you on on Dalton Young. It it was it kind of popped me in that moment of like, wait, really? But I know I know s that there were a lot of people that are really high on him. And there's a part of me that thinks there's a part of me that thinks Buffalo could be a great spot. for for Dalton Young, not just because you know i he he'll he'll he won't be kind of like expected to do a a ton, you know, he'll he'll be allowed to kind of work his way in. But also I just think of like places that I would want to go if I was him and and just try and learn. And and learn from from some of the guys that are in Buffalo. Like I I just think that that could be a a really good one. I'm with you on the the Deacon Knott Zach Higgins thing. I I'm with you. I I completely understand the idea of like, well, he's gonna be a backup to Brett, so like why go get Zack Higgins? But one, I think I want my backup to be the best I can get. So that's Thought number one. Number two, I don't want Zach Higgins playing for someone else in the league if I can prevent it. That's number three. @HootSportsMedia: Exactly. Yep. Neil Barrett: And if it was if it was that important to you that like you were just going to get a a backup goalie, why couldn't you have gotten hit a backup goalie later? Like do we think Brent Deacon not was gonna get picked up? by someone else? Like it were we that worried about it that we couldn't go get you know a a Connor a Connor Kearnan or or you know hell Dalton Young or you know Mitchell Arn like really? These guys weren't you know like you're you used your your first round pick in this dispersal draft to pick a backup goalie not you know another @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, I'm trying to look like Neil Barrett: offensive player or @HootSportsMedia: There's really only a couple teams again, I'm assuming he's an Eastern he is an Eastern guy, I know that for a fact. I don't know if he said, No, I won't play for any West teams, but assuming he did, like there's really only a couple teams Neil Barrett: That's fair. @HootSportsMedia: even that would even take him. So from that standpoint, maybe they really did feel like he'd be off the board. but again, seeing it live, I still was just like, Whoa, like, okay. so Again, who knows? that that's what's weird about lacrosse is just there's so many extra factors that go into it as opposed to just being like, I'm gonna take the best player But but yeah, I was still just kinda Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: like, Man, and but but not a better guy to learn from, I guess, if you're him for Brett Brett Dobson, so Neil Barrett: Yeah. so anyway that all I like I said, all I wrote down was was that first round. what anything else in in the later it was only two rounds, wasn't it? so anything in the in the second round you wanted to Was it three? But so many people passed in the third round or something, right? @HootSportsMedia: three rounds technically, but I'm looking right now. Yeah, two two people two teams passed. Saskatchewan passed in the third round and then Toronto passed as well. Michael Sowers got taken by Vancouver, thirty fifth overall. I don't think he will play Neil Barrett: Toronto passed on everything. That's right, that's right. @HootSportsMedia: N L L at all anymore. But maybe he does show up. I don't I don't know. you know, looking at like the rest of these names Neil Barrett: that that's a really interesting one. Do we know he has a he has a full time job, right? @HootSportsMedia: I don't know if he does. I think he's full time lacrosse. Neil Barrett: He if I remember correctly, if I remember correctly, I looked up he had a full time job. I don't know if he still does. he had a full time job working for like some company in Delaware. It was it was one of those like typical, it wasn't finance, I don't think, but it was one of those kind of like stereotypical kind of lacrosse jobs, you know, it where he was making a a pretty good salary. That being said, I don't know if he still does it. he was now lacrosse is mostly a weekend sport, and especially when you're playing for two Philadelphia teams and you live in Delaware, like it's not a super heavy commitment for you. but he was playing full, you know, year round lacrosse in the PL and the NL for for technically the last two seasons. I I think he was hurt most of two seasons ago, but but Technically for the last two seasons, right? He he was playing for the Wings? @HootSportsMedia: yeah, I think he was signed mid season or traded for, I guess, mid season two years ago. So yeah. Neil Barrett: the season before last. Okay. That's that's what I was thinking too. So I it's gonna be really interesting to see if he plays in Vancouver. I think it was a I think it was a good pick for Vancouver, you know, take take the flyer and and at the very least, if he still wants to play in the NLL this winter, you got a piece to trade. You know, he doesn't want to he doesn't want to come to Vancouver but he still wants to to play. You can trade him. so I I think it's a pretty good pickup for them whether he plays or he doesn't. but it will be interesting to see. I I genuinely don't know enough about Vancouver right now. And you may not either. I don't I don't know if you know. Is that is there room for him on on their offense? @HootSportsMedia: I mean I don't think so. Maybe there is. They just resigned Curtis Dixon. Jesse King's back. a assuming Ryan Martell is healthy again Neil Barrett: Kegan Bowl. @HootSportsMedia: this year, he's back. Keegan Ball just got re signed. I mean those four right there are already their starters, essentially. I'm missing one obviously for the fifth, but Marshall King technically is there. He didn't play last year for them. We'll see if he plays this year. They traded Cormier, so maybe he can take like a practice. I just don't if if I just don't see Sowers sticking around if he's just gonna be a practice squad guy. Like unless he's playing, there's no reason for him going one coast basically to the other for this. so I mean, maybe again, he he was much better, I think, w actually playing than I think I thought he'd be in the NL. So from that standpoint, maybe Mouse up there is just like, We'll take a flyer and if he's good enough in camp, we'll we'll bring him in. But you know, that that's that's a team ready to win now. So unless you're thinking he's a piece that can help you win now. You know, I I don't know. But maybe he is. Neil Barrett: I I genuinely don't know sorry, I was gonna try and pull up his stats real quick from last If I even can. wait, there's this LinkedIn. Associate at Buccini Poland Group. If that has been updated. Colorado mammoth? @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, there's like an article that pops up just 'cause his name's in it. Neil Barrett: Hate that. This is not I can't find his NOL stats page very quickly. Anyway, irrelevant. I just was wondering, you know, what what he had done and how much he could contribute. But but yeah, definitely something to to kinda keep an eye on. anything else in that that second, third round jump out to you? @HootSportsMedia: real quick, Michael Sowers played eight games and put up twenty seven points, fourteen goals, thirteen assists. So he basically put up a P L L stat line, split wise. so I mean he was, you know, solid Neil Barrett: So @HootSportsMedia: contributor there. Neil Barrett: a little over a little over three points a game. I mean @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean granted there's hockey assists, but still, like that's that's really good. Especially for a guy basically coming in off of just field. I know there's been talk about him having some like you know, having played field or box at some point, but as far as like someone playing professionally, like that's I'll take that every day of the week, so but as far as the last two rounds there, I mean some names people will know. Ron John went to Oshawa, he signed there today. Isaiah Davis Allen went to the swarm. Travis Longboat, Buffalo. Larson Sundown Buffalo. Yeah, Buffalo had so many picks in this thing, like that's just ridiculous. Bo Columbus, I think people Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: will know, went to Georgia as well. Georgia did too, man. but yeah, that's that's about it. Some other solid picks, but not that many people will, you know, know too much, I guess. Neil Barrett: Yeah. so yeah, crazy tight. It it feels like so many teams now have have so much talent. it's gonna be interesting when we come back from @HootSportsMedia: So maybe the perfect number of teams is twelve because of the parity that we might see now. Neil Barrett: Well a and that was part of the thing that I was wondering. I I'm glad that you brought up Dawson's tweet 'cause that was actually kind of the thought that I had was was the was reading that tweet and thinking about all of the the kind of veteran guys that are gonna be looking i i taking I think he I think the way he says it is, you know, basically veterans are going to be taking a pay cut, moving teams or not not in the league this year. And and it just got my wheels kinda turning about like what is the correct number of teams. Again, money aside, ownership aside, like what what would be the right number for where la where Box Lacrosse is right now and the talent pool that they have. And twelve feels decent, but I I think you might be right. Sixteen is probably a pretty good number. especially because like you said, I I think I think we're we've turned a corner where I think Americans are gonna start taking it more and more seriously and taking advantage of that opportunity. we'll get into the Americans in the entry draft because there was a freaking crap ton of but But yeah, I I I think I think you're probably not far off. and it's it's probably a conversation we should have about the PLL at some point, but not tonight. let's let's actually go ahead and move over to the entry draft. the Rochester Nighthawks had the number one pick after the folding of Ottawa and Philly. and with it they selected Finn Thompson. I think not really a surprise. I his for for most of the last two years, I think people have said it was more or less a f a coin toss between Finn and Joey. So him him going number one was not a surprise at all. is going to be a great player for Rochester. number two, I think, was somewhat surprising when Toronto took Silas Richman as opposed to Joey Spilina. I I mentioned earlier the idea of of teams maybe starting to look at who guys are playing with and I I wondered if that came into consideration here with with Silas at all and and he will now be playing year round with CJ Kirst similar to Pat and Brennan. I wondered if if that came into account in this decision or or even if it was as simple as you know maybe Toronto asks CJ. Hey, these are the two guys we're looking at. or I mean I'm sure Finn was probably in there because, you know, they won't have known who Rochester was taking. But, you know, asked CJ. I if if he's your number one pick, if he's gonna be your big star moving forward, why wouldn't you ask him who he wanted to play with? so I I have no idea. Who knows what's happening in old Dalwick's head, but I it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me. well let's let's I'll I'll move on and then I'll I'll come I'll circle back to something. But number three was Matt Collison to Vancouver. I that felt a little surprising to me. Not hugely, not like some crazy out of left field thing. but a little surprising, I I thought, to not see Joey go three. @HootSportsMedia: I I actually never had Joey going three. I had I had, if anything, Silas going to them. So that's why when they picked Matt Collison, I was kind of I don't know if I'd want to say unfazed, 'cause it was still kinda like I just didn't expect that, but I also didn't expect Silas to go two there. So I thought it was a quality pickup as long as he's willing to to play there. Like that's a really good take. it's weird just again, Silas at one point was maybe being talked about as the number one pick. And then that kinda bounced around and then it was Joey and just then the last couple of weeks there it like, No, it's Finn Thompson and then it's everybody else, which I found interesting. So, I mean good for Vancouver. Again, they don't have a lot of space offensively right now, but they also are getting older, so from that standpoint, you know, if Joey was willing to play there, I'm surprised that they didn't take Neil Barrett: Can I well he seem he seems willing to play in Calgary. I can't imagine that's a much shorter flight than Vancouver. but can I ask you why? let's let's move down let's get to Joey and then and then I'll I I have a couple of things. then the next pick was Vegas. I think we all really expected Joey to go there, and then they picked Michael White. Which is another one of those things I think kind of like we talked about in the dispersal draft felt really shocking when it happened, but then the more I thought about it, the more it was kind of like, okay, you know, I think I think I think we all thought last year the big thing that Vegas was missing was defense and a goalie. They went and got goalie. They have been trying to improve this defense you know, they they got a goalie and a defender in in the first round of the dispersal draft. They got a defender in the first round of the entry draft. Like I it really feels like, you know, we you mentioned that they have they have kind of repeatedly banged their head against the wall of trying to get the best offensive player available to them instead of addressing needs. And it really feels like this this time in this past two weeks, they have really tried to address needs this year. so I guess in that sense, even though, you know, everyone was kind of like, What is happening with Joey? it kind of makes sense. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, to an extent. I still those factors aside, I'm just still shocked that we went from he's gonna be the number one pick in two professional leagues to four and five. I again I I under I underst if you were to say, Well, Finn Thompson's going one, Silas Richmond's going two Mac, okay, sure. Still the span of one year we went from he's gonna be the third American, I think it was in a row, taken first overall in the NL to that. It's just wild to me. I do think him and Calgary's gonna be great though. I think those jerseys, assuming they sell them, will fly off the shelves, which allegedly they have as Team Store that does that, so go get your jersey. and yeah, I mean you already have a passionate fan base there who already know who he is, and then we'll get to him in a second, but the guy they added at number seven too, I think just adds on. I think it'll help bridge the gap even more between PL and NL fans. and I hate that I like those players 'cause I don't like that team. Neil Barrett: That's actually a really good point. We'll come we'll come back to that when we when we get down to the seven. you you kinda you kind of spoiled the the next to the pick, but it was actually San Diego's pick at number five. We all thought, holy crap, they're gonna have Joey Spellina, Brennan O'Neal, Pat Kavanaugh, Chris Kavanaugh. Like, they're just gonna be An insane field roster and then Calgary jumped up. They traded San Diego. I don't remember what exactly they traded, but Calgary jumped up and took Joey Spilina at number five. A couple of questions for you. You said that you had Actually, I take it back. That's a dumb question. You you said that you had Silas Richman going to Vancouver, but you had you had him going to Vancouver because you expected Finn and Joey to go one and two in whatever order, right? Okay. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Neil Barrett: I was gonna say why Silas over Joey, but it's because you had Joey going first. To @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Neil Barrett: what you just said though, that was one of my That was one of the things that I really don't understand. I I I have some notes, so let me let me pull them up real quick. So, per my understanding, and I will admit, you know, as I do with everything in the NLL, I'm not I'm not claiming to be an expert, but per my understanding, like you mentioned, The conversation for the last two years has been that Joey Spilina could be the number one or the third American to go number one overall in both leagues coming in. Now he didn't cut he didn't he didn't he didn't go number one overall in the PL. That's a whole different conversation. But the idea was that he would still be the third straight American to go number one overall in the NLL. By about January, my impression was that it was basically a coin toss between Joey and Finn for that number one pick. Whoever went number one, n the other would go number two right after them. So that's January, let's say. In the time between January to this draft, none none of those top three guys, Finn, Silas, and Joey, played box. That I'm aware of. you know, they they played college lacrosse and then they played in the PLL. So they they weren't playing box lacrosse. In those two seasons, Joey Spilina unquestionably had the better season. He had the better college season, he had the better pro season. statistically as well as I think. leadership, all the all of those, you know, kind of intangible things. We can talk about points. He had more points than any of them in in the college season. He had three times more points than either of them in the PL season. I I know that Silas and Finn, I think both had some visa issues. They didn't have the the full season. that certainly affected things. Obviously, Joey was kind of a a full-time starter on that whip snakes offense, whereas Silas was kind of running out of the box. Also, I I don't even know Finn was running out of the box too, I think, right? @HootSportsMedia: Sounds right. Neil Barrett: For the for the Redwoods? I th I think he was. Also @HootSportsMedia: I don't even think he played that many games either. He only played a couple games. Wow. That's more than I remember. Neil Barrett: He played five games. He played five games. He had and to be fair, he Yeah. and to be fair, he had he had 12 points in those games. Like, you know, solid return. It's not like it's not to say that either of them were bad. It's just to say that of the two seasons that we watched, Joey was better in both of them. Now, the other caveat to say here is field success. Does not necessarily translate to to box success, nor does you know, current success necessarily equal future success. There's also obviously some conversations about what did we need, but we are looking at I believe they're all three right-handed forwards, right? Right, right. Yeah, they're all three right-handed forwards. @HootSportsMedia: Sounds yeah. Neil Barrett: Yeah, they're all three right-handed forwards. So in terms of need. If you needed a right handed forward, y you could have picked any of them. So what I don't understand is how we went from January it being in in fact in January on the clock had Silas as the sixth pick. And then we the only the only lacrosse that we saw these three guys play was field lacrosse in which Joey was significantly better than the other two and yet he's the one that plummeted down the rankings. And I just it just doesn't make sense to me. It's not a huge deal. I I think Calgary got something. But kind of like you were saying, like I just don't understand how we got there. you know, i it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I was I was really convinced that Joey was gonna be in Toronto. I feel I felt like I felt like I got okie doked like I did with the chrome. Where like I convinced myself so hard that something was gonna happen that even though I'm not a Joey Spilina fan, you know, I got no issues with Joey Spilina, but I'm not a fan of it, you know, I'm not a Syracuse guy, I'm not a Joey fan. I was like so convinced that he was going to be a Toronto that I was so disappo I was like so let down when he didn't get selected. It felt exactly like the Chrome situation. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. And then every pick after that was like, they passed? Okay, okay, he's going four. they passed too It was just like I even said after the Toronto Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: pass in our chat, I was like, I think Buffalo, he could slide to Buffalo. And then was that Neil Barrett: Which is @HootSportsMedia: close. boy. There was rumors that he was they were interested Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: in him if he fell. Neil Barrett: Yeah, I I again I think that was Dawson again that that said essentially Joe the essentially Joey essentially Calgary made the move because they were pretty sure Buffalo was going to take him at six if they didn't. So just super super interesting. Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: Good good on you, Calgary. Wait way to help us out. Neil Barrett: Yeah, I I'm I Yeah. Anyway. I part of me kinda wishes like if he didn't go to Toronto, I kinda wish he did go to San Diego, even though that would have been ridiculous. Like I ma imagine they d @HootSportsMedia: San Diego Field Lacrosse players. Neil Barrett: I was gonna ready to say, I think it was you that that said that they're like the reverse chaos of of twenty twenty one. I mean they they kind of @HootSportsMedia: Pretty much. Pretty much. Go get Andy Towers. Can he still coach? Neil Barrett: Yeah, they they kind of are that even without Joey, but you know, if they had gotten Joey like they would have literally just trotted out like a five-man field lacrosse offense. I I wonder what that would have looked like. I almost wish that that had happened because I I just want to see it. It might it might be a complete dumpster fire. I just want to see it. I want to see what it looks like. But anyway, Joey went to Calgary. with the sixth pick, the Buffalo Bandits selected Dante Bowen. not not a Not a bad pick at all. He's a great player. off the top of my head, I don't feel like I'm super familiar with their roster enough, but I I would imagine transition is is a a good spot that they need. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, solid pick. They don't need anything offensively, so you know, they just re signed Paul Dawson Neil Barrett: Certainly, certainly. @HootSportsMedia: as well. So their defense is gonna be good again, assuming Zach Higgins can can lock in for a couple of years. Like they're still gonna be really good. Neil Barrett: Yeah. and then with the seventh pick, we were back to Calgary. and they kinda Correct me if I'm wrong. Would would you say that's that is one of the bigger shocks of of this draft? @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, I thought he was gonna w fall to the second round, personally. And that's not a knock on Chad. Neil Barrett: Yes. @HootSportsMedia: Like the second usually the first and second round is kinda where guys will the guys who are playing get selected and I like, Yeah, I think he's gonna be a good second rounder. so I w I was shocked he went seventh. Am I mad at it? Absolutely not, but yeah, just going from Spilina to Palumbo on two picks is I like it. I but yeah, still still a Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: little bit shocked. Neil Barrett: Yeah. I I didn't actually say it. They did with the seventh pick, Calgary did select Chad Palombo. yeah, I was I was shocked. Seventh is where he went in the PL draft. And that's that's like this w I know he I know he has some some some box experience he played whatever that is in N C B L L or whatever it was with the San Diego @HootSportsMedia: And C B S Neil Barrett: N C B S with the San Diego Royals. so @HootSportsMedia: scoring some highlight reel goals, man. I tell you what. Neil Barrett: All two highlights. @HootSportsMedia: Shut up. We're gonna enjoy the two highlights we have. Alright, that's two more to come. Neil Barrett: That's true. That's true. and I'm I'm with you. I th I first of all, anyone who's listened to the show knows that we love Chad Palumbo. and so like I'm excited for him. But I I like you, I thought he would go in the second round when he went seventh in the first round. Now, again, sort of like we said with Joey, we don't know if other teams were were thinking they might jump for him and and so Calgary went ahead and and kind of pulled that trigger or what but certainly a shocking pick but one one we're both fans of I I almost wanna wanna become a Calgary fan now between between Joey and Chad but I na I know I know I know, you don't you don't have to say it. @HootSportsMedia: I won't I'm not mad, just disappointing. Neil Barrett: okay, okay. with the eighth pick, Saskatchewan selected Aaron to Taguri. I don't know anything about him or about Saskatchewan, so we can we can kind of finish out this this first round. Georgia picked David Anderson with the ninth pick. San Diego, look, we we talked about trotting out a field line. San Diego with the tenth pick picked Ada McGuire, falls right in to that that field s @HootSportsMedia: Star Attackman, man. Can't wait to see him on offense. Let's go. Neil Barrett: The short stick defensive attackman makes his pick Honestly, I kinda like it though. Him and him and Danny Logan will be on the same I guess, transition. Are are that would you call them transition? Would you call them defense? What would you call them? @HootSportsMedia: Danny Logan I'd call transition for sure. I'd probably call Maguire transition, but who knows what they're gonna do at that spot. I don't Neil Barrett: The the thing that I the thing that I pulled from called Aiden McGuire defense, but he he does he does score, so you know, it part of it feels transition to me, but whatever. Las Vegas picked up another defender in Ooh, I'm gonna butcher his last name, Owen Tas Tassey, Tasse? I don't know. Halifax picked up Nick Crawley. Weird question. Is this related to You know, v is this is he related? @HootSportsMedia: That I don't know. That that I don't know. Neil Barrett: Anyway, Rochester what? @HootSportsMedia: I c I can ask around and find out, but I don't know. I can ask I can ask around. Neil Barrett: yeah. Rochester picked up Sokka Thompson, a goalie. Calgary then picked up Zach Mowen with the 14th pick. Georgia grabbed Jack Cascaden, who some of the field audience may remember from Cornell, I think. Vancouver picked up Marcus Kahn and Toronto picked up Alex Simard. That rounded out the first round. Several of those picks were compensatory picks, so that's why. just go grabbing a couple other names just for the sake of the podcast. In the second round, Toronto picked up Andrew McMeakin. In the fourth round, Georgia picked up Blake Island. in the later in the fourth round, Calgary picked up Alex Ross, which could be really good if he plays. I don't know if he'll play. And then in the fifth round, Georgia picked up Kyle Lewis. Another one that I think could be really fun. If he plays, we'll see. so yeah, that's who'd I miss? @HootSportsMedia: You're missing a big one. A b you're missing a big, big name here. Neil Barrett: Who'd I miss? @HootSportsMedia: Se second rounder twenty fifth overall. Colorado Mammoth select forward Ryan Steins. Neil Barrett: crap, I did forget about Ryan Stein's, yes. Yes. Is he g do you think he's gonna play? The league done messed up. @HootSportsMedia: League done messed up. yeah. yeah. yeah. He's playing. I have Neil Barrett: Yeah, he is? @HootSportsMedia: no inside info. I have no idea. I'm just gonna speak it into existence until it doesn't happen. We we have we have Neil Barrett: Fair enough, fair enough. @HootSportsMedia: a history of of of taking these like field stars and that then they never end up playing. So I'm just gonna hope that he does Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: end up playing. Neil Barrett: Yeah. I totally I totally forgot about him him playing. That's so f that's so funny. @HootSportsMedia: I mean McMeekin's nice, he's a great second rounder, but I was like, Hey, wait a minute, wait a minute. That that's a rookie of the year candidate right there. Neil Barrett: Yeah, I f I just I just totally sc I was trying to grab some people that like, you know, our listeners might might, you know, recognize. I totally forgot about Ryan Stein's. that's so funny. I I I hope a lot of those guys play. You know, we'll we'll see what happens. There's there's also you know, we talked about it in the in the group chat last week about, you know, Andrew McIdry is technically listed on the the rush roster and he didn't play last year, but the the things that we were hearing was that he didn't play because he was finishing up his master's degree at Duke and he had every intention of playing this year. It's been a full year, maybe that has changed. but the word on the street last year was that he was going to be playing in Saskatchewan this year. So we'll see what happens with that. that could be another really interesting pickup. I guess the other one to mention would be that that Ty English will be on on the the Toronto roster this year as well. somewhat similar instance to to Andrew Makadory, although, you know, he was still in an undergrad. but Yeah, any who who who got better through those two drafts? Or who who got the most better, I guess is the the better. @HootSportsMedia: Oshawa and Vegas. Neil Barrett: I was g I was gonna see if you were gonna pick one of them. @HootSportsMedia: Vegas. Neil Barrett: Vegas, okay. Okay. Yeah, I thought I've @HootSportsMedia: I think they were already a scrappy team last year that just needed a goalie. And not only did they get the goalie, but they shored up a lot of the back end as well. And I think they'll have some surprising Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: cuts come training camp time, but I think they Yeah, they're I'm kinda nervous. I think they're gonna be a good team. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah, and and to be to be fair, to your to your point earlier, Oshawa was Oshawa was in the N L L Finals, you know, the season before last. So, like @HootSportsMedia: Right. Yeah. Neil Barrett: you know, they didn't get a whole lot better, even though they did get better. you know, hopefully they're just @HootSportsMedia: Th I I think all things considered, I mean it's it's easy pickings for because they got Jeff T first overall, but like the trade for for holding Garland was incredible. I think that's not enough that's not a a trade people are really talking about enough. and I think they'll they'll realize that throughout the year. On top of just they already had a good offense with with Alex Simmons and Ty Kurtz and hopefully Dyson bounces back too. So they're a close second. I also think Team there are also a lot of teams I think that were already really good that just kind of will maintain. Like Buffalo, I think had a lot of really good picks, but they were already really, really good. So I can't really be like, Well, they got super, you know, way better 'cause they they lost the greatest goalie of all time. So how does that affect them as well? you know, same thing with like Toronto. Like they they were already really good. They got better but marginally comparatively to other teams. So yeah, Vegas is man. Neil Barrett: Last last question for you before we kinda wrap things up. How do you feel given those two drafts about the mammoth? @HootSportsMedia: as good as I can. I mean I don't there's gonna be some interesting kind of free agent stuff that goes on I think. in training camp wise. I mean two of the guys who took in the dispersal haven't signed just yet, so we'll see if that how that plays out. Eli McLaughlin's coming back this year. That's huge. We'll see about Ryan Lee. I know he's he's walking around. He's been traveling this summer, so he's at least good to walk. I don't know if how that translates to, you know, playing lacrosse, but we'll see if he's back. Jack Hannah, I know, is r is recovering. His foot seems to be better. His wrist still had a cast on it at the PL L. Championship, so we'll see about that. Neil Barrett: Yeah. @HootSportsMedia: he sh I mean that's we're talking about months from now. He should be good. Defensively, they're fine defensively. I just think Again it's a bunch of new players are gonna be back in there 'cause, you know, with Hess being out and some other the other guys that we I think we're assuming were coming were coming back from injury, now maybe not. So I still feel really good. It's just gonna be you know, everyone else got better as well. So Neil Barrett: Yeah. That that was one of the reasons why I was asking is 'cause in terms of like getting better, I'm like, you know, Calgary Calgary. Colorado felt like maybe one that that didn't do a ton. Not that they not that they didn't get any better, but like they just like like we said, you know, several teams seemed to get like significantly better. And and so I just wondered where you were in in terms of of Colorado. So @HootSportsMedia: I mean I guess it's good thing 'cause that means they already had everything they kinda needed. Like I really do think last year if we get past San Diego, I think we are probably hoisting the hoisting the cup, if I'm being completely honest. you can call me biased, whatever you want, but I really I just look at those teams and I'm like, man, like Maybe Toronto still knocks us out, but if we get to Halifax, sorry, we're taking it. so from that standpoint, I'm like, there's not really much to add, but I think Alex Pace is a great ad. a few other defenders I think are smart. I think taking a even taking a flyer on Ryan Stein's can be really helpful, especially I th he's a righty. If Ryan Lee doesn't come back, you kinda need to add someone anyway. So there you go. And then Dylan Ward and again, like I I mentioned earlier, Nate Wittham has had an incredible summer. So whenever Ward was ready to walk away, Nate Wittham's the future. So Lock it in, twenty twenty six, twenty seven, Neil Barrett: Speaking it. @HootSportsMedia: NL champions, Colorado Mammoth. Neil Barrett: Okay. All right. We'll s we'll see how that goes. @HootSportsMedia: We will. Neil Barrett: couple of a couple of kind of quick hits here. The man cup happened since wait, was it it was since we did our last episode, I think. @HootSportsMedia: Yep, yep. Neil Barrett: Six Nations swept I almost butchered this Coquitlam for a four-peat. Ryan Smith was the series MVP, apparently. This felt like the least focused on man cup I can remember. It felt like such a foregone conclusion for people that like people just weren't watching. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah, yeah. Coquitlam was w like they have a lot of names box fans will recognize, but I just think you look at them compared to like the Salmon Bellies last year. Like the Salmon Bellies really loaded up with talent last year to where it was like here's I mean, this is the best chance they have to take down the Chiefs and it was still I think four three. So Yeah. I d I don't know. It's Again, we all knew it was gonna happen. People are gonna say we're just hating because they're an indigenous team like they did last year, but you know. It's all legal. apparently. Neil Barrett: I forgot that. @HootSportsMedia: if it's all if it's all legal, like, you know if it's legal, every team has to do it. Neil Barrett: Technically it's not legal. @HootSportsMedia: Sure, but it's they're letting it happen, so every team needs to get on board if that's what's happening. and like and and to to Coquitlam's Neil Barrett: Well I think the @HootSportsMedia: credit, they they did try. I mean they added Peyton Cormier, they added Rebowering, you know, they they they definitely you know, they added Dylan McIntosh, shut up, mammoth. Dylan Macintosh, but The Chiefs were already so good and then you look at who they add I they added Andrew Q and Andrew Q didn't even play every game. Like It's too easy. Neil Barrett: Yeah. I I don't know that you and I are the the ones to have this conversation on on this kind of a platform. you know, I I know that we're not watching Canadian summer box, you know, regularly enough to like really be informed. But you do have to wonder if if there's a The problem with the idea of like, well, if Six Nations is doing it, then everyone else should be doing it, is that Six Nations is doing it because their owner has basically bottomless pockets and @HootSportsMedia: Sure, sure. Neil Barrett: way more money. Listen, we want to talk about Manchester City. I mean, it's it's almost a Manchester City style situation here. and and so at some point you do have to wonder if they're they're they they again I I hate to like wade into these waters 'cause it's just gonna I'm just gonna wanna keep talking about it and I don't know that I I'm really the best person to have this conversation, but it certainly feels like we need there there needs to be some level of rules and regulations and stuff on what can and can't be done because it's hurting the product at this point. And You know, if people aren't watching, like, what's the point? So I don't know. @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Well and I know I saw the the WLA, the Western Lacrosse Association, their commissioner was on Lacrosse classified a week or two ago. And I think I think he was the one that said they've had representing in the man cup, they've had f I think five different teams in the last eight years representing the WLA, which I'm like, okay, so they're obviously there's a little bit more parity there where each year there's like, you know, some teams that can really make a run versus the MSL it's been Peterborough for, you know, the late teens, I wanna say, and then it was, you know, Six Nations the last last four. So again, if if you know, I'm glad that guys are making a living playing lacrosse. But like you said, like and and the funny thing is we aren't even the ones pointing this out. Like there were box podcasts I was listening to. Well, Lacrosse Classified's a great example, where they even said, like, yeah, it was kind of just It just happened. It wasn't like a spectacle like it usually is. Like last year I remember vividly like being like, Okay, this is the year that like Six Nations actually has a has a challenge and just wasn't there, so Neil Barrett: Yeah. I @HootSportsMedia: you know, who knows? But Neil Barrett: I think it was Graham Perot that w that tweeted out about like even in the arena, the audience like the venue in @HootSportsMedia: Yeah. Yeah. Neil Barrett: arena wasn't sold out. Like it it you know, people like you said, it it was just kind of a thing that happened and and And even like box fans didn't seem to be paying attention, didn't seem to really care. It was such a foregone conclusion. People didn't want to watch it. And that's a that's a problem, I I would think. You know, I don't run the I don't run the Man Cup. I don't run the MSL or WLA, obviously. but I would think I would want people watching my product. So anyway, in other news, the Pan Am Sixes tournament started today. It will run through October fourth in Oshawa. @HootSportsMedia: You froze up on me, but keep going if you're talking. Neil Barrett: I I just it just dawned on me that the US doesn't even have to qualify. because the US because the Olympics are in the US so they don't have to qualify, they're automatically in. so I I don't know how super interested in the the Pala Sixes tournament. I am. We talked about it very briefly in in Lax Lifers today. it's a thirty dollar fee to watch it, so I don't know anyone that's gonna do that. But it did technically start today. And the team the team was the most loaded I've seen a US Sixes team in a really long time. Did you see the They had a training camp last week and they they brought the Sixes team, but then they also brought a 12-man roster of like secondary players, presumably probably to like scrimmage against and stuff. That twelve man team that they that that they brought of just like extras was better than any US team I'd ever seen play sixes, so Hopefully that means we're headed in the right direction. speaking of sixes during the hiatus that that Brandon and I take, the Atlas Cup will also be taking place during in October. I wonder too, they normally do the Atlas Cup and then they do the US There's another one that they usually do like the Super Sixes, I think is what it's called. I don't know if Super Sixes is happening because of the Pan Am. Maybe maybe that kinda replaced it, but there might be another one. And then yeah, the NLL's opening night. It says November twenty-seventh on here. I thought it was the twenty-eighth. I have NL opening night as November twenty-seventh. I thought it was the twenty-eighth though. @HootSportsMedia: I don't know. Neil Barrett: I don't know either. I th I thought I I thought when I looked at the schedule it started the twenty eight, but either way, that will be presumably around the time that we are are back, probably the week before that or so. so anyway, what Before we get out of here, what you gonna what you gonna do? This has been a a way longer episode than than it normally is, but there w there was I guess a lot to get through. what are you going to be getting into in in this six or so weeks that we're off? @HootSportsMedia: just same stuff, shooting some events, editing some events. Traveling to to Vegas for an event over Thanksgiving. I think we'll be back before then, but if we're not, that that's happening. So I will be gone that week regardless. yeah, I don't know. Just bunch of stuff, bunch of work. Neil Barrett: work. That's good. like I said at the beginning, I'm moving. next time that we do an episode, I will be in hopefully a a fairly permanent location for the next for the foreseeable future. get out of here, Brandon I'll have to Brandon can stop dealing with this crappy internet that I have at this At this house. although you know what? I don't feel that bad because it's a little bit of a pain in the butt for you to record, but then it takes me like eight hours to upload this thing. So @HootSportsMedia: Ha ha. Neil Barrett: you know, I'm I'm up all night over here trying to get this episode ready. So I don't feel that bad for you, but it is a pain in the butt. It's a pain in the butt for me. I know it's a pain in the butt for you. So yeah, I guess that's kind of it. We can we can leave it there and I will try to keep you guys updated on when we will be back. it will be sometime around Thanksgiving-ish, maybe the week before, maybe the week after, depending on what's going on. But we should be back before the NLL's opening night. Although maybe maybe with Thanksgiving, I because I'd imagine the 27th is Thanksgiving, so maybe it'll be the weekend after that. But we will let you know, keep an eye on social media. So That will do it for this week. If you enjoyed this episode, the Lax Lifers Club is where our community lives between episodes. It's a Discord for the fans watching lacrosse year around. Not just when the PLL playoffs are on, aka a lifer. The link to join is in the description. Across social media, you can find me at Iam Neil Barrett and Brandon at Hoot Sports Media. If you haven't yet, rate and review the show on whatever platform you're listening on. It takes about 30 seconds and it genuinely helps people find us. We'll be back not next week. We'll be back in a few weeks, six weeks or so. So until then, as always, we'll catch you in the comments.