Gold Rush - The WLL's Time is Now!

[00:00:12] What is up guys, welcome to Gold Rush, I am Neil Barrett. Today we are talking about the first day of Championship Series games which just ended. I am here with Jackson Van Vlake, PLL fan, aficionado, lacrosse guru guy, friend, I guess we could say? Absolutely. All right, all right. With Carolina boys, even though you're not here anymore, but...

[00:00:40] Yeah, yeah. I... Listen, we have had snow on the ground outside for a solid two months now, and I have never missed North Carolina more. I'm sure. No, the last year I was up at the Champ Series, I got the opportunity to go and... I mean, it wasn't even a big deal. Like, I remember going home from the first night and seeing snow plows and I've never seen a snow plow in my life.

[00:01:09] And just woke up and there was snow on the ground, but the roads were fine. And I was like, wow, we're not in Kansas anymore. Yeah, that reminds me of the first time I ever went to LaxCon. You know LaxCon? Yeah. Yeah. The first year I ever went, it was in Baltimore, as it often was. And right as I was leaving, I actually left a few hours earlier than I had planned to from North Carolina because there was some snow coming in.

[00:01:37] And we were supposed to get, I believe in Greensboro, we were getting about two inches was like kind of the heavy prediction. And people were like, oh, you're leaving? You're leaving? Like, what? Are you crazy? And I was like, you don't understand. Like, they're, they are better. They are equipped to handle two feet of snow better than we are to handle two inches.

[00:01:57] And I went up there and sure enough, we got two feet of snow in Baltimore and the city. The city did kind of shut down a little bit, but, but they had roads were cleared. Sidewalks were cleared, everything. Um, I ended up staying an extra day. So I stayed the whole weekend and then I stayed an extra day and coming home, drove all the way through Virginia and literally hit the North Carolina border.

[00:02:23] And you could instantly tell, like, I didn't even need the sign because all of a sudden there was snow like sweeping across the roads. It was down to one lane and, uh, it had been, it had been probably four or five days since then. And then North Carolina was still just like wiped out. And then, oh yeah. Two inches of snow closed the school for a week. It's out.

[00:02:43] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's two feet of snow sitting outside this window right here right now. And not a single thing has stopped. We, we, we did Superbowl parties, like not a single, it's crazy. So, you know, whatever. Anyway, uh, day one was in the books. Let's, let's get into the WLL.

[00:03:06] Let's started, uh, the, the, the, the day off today. Um, kind of overall, what, what did you think does the first time that we've seen the WLL on the field? So, so what were your initial thoughts and impressions about the game? Yeah. So I missed the, the unleashed all-star game last year. Um, for whatever reason, I can't remember what it was. And, um, and so this is the first real exposure to the women's game I've had, especially women's sixes.

[00:03:34] And man, I mean, it was fun. And, um, you know, I, you know, I don't have any relation, you know, I like Marcus Holman. So by extension, I like Alex Osholman. Um, so, you know, kind of pull in, but I did predict the, um, the charging to win, um, the whole thing.

[00:03:50] So, you know, it was, it was awesome game down the wire. Wasn't a huge fan of that last call. Um, you know, to me is one of those, just kind of, you know, let them play kind of thing. Um, but you know, you do have to appreciate the refs, you know, probably calling a whole new rule set with, you know, pretty limited experience.

[00:04:13] So I thought otherwise the game was called great and, uh, the players were awesome to watch. Uh, I I'm still waiting for that first two, um, to come because that is going to be absolutely electric. Um, but it was a great game and, um, definitely, um, could not have asked for a better opener.

[00:04:32] Yeah. Yeah, no, I, I agree. It was, it was a, it was a super fun game. It was ruined a little bit by specifically that holding call when, when Maryland got the ball back with 30 seconds down a goal and we're headed down the field. And it seemed kind of like a phantom call that that one call was pretty bad, but I'd say the last three, four, maybe even five minutes, there were a few calls that were really like, what is happening that otherwise throughout the whole game.

[00:05:02] Didn't seem to be being made that all of a sudden were, and that, that was, that was really weird. Um, the other kind of just overall notes I thought were, I wrote sloppy, which feels really harsh. Um, because I, I, we talked in, in the, in the, the kind of group chat that we're all in during the game. And I said, it, it felt like a, like a team full of,

[00:05:31] a brand new team playing in a brand new league in a brand new form of the game. It felt like there was a lot of, um, jitters or I don't know. I don't know what was going on. I, I know the women that were on that field were capable of playing better than they did, especially early in the game. I'd say the first half definitely, and maybe even kind of into the third quarter a bit. Uh, it, it felt,

[00:06:00] it felt fairly sloppy, but then the fourth quarter, it definitely kind of picked up a bit. Um, so that was a, that was a big thing for me. Um, uh, two other things I noticed were both teams seem to be using a lot of offense and defensive specific substitutions.

[00:06:20] It looked, it looked a lot. Yeah. It looked a lot to me like, um, like a box game where, yes, where, where you're heading down and you pull your offensive players on and then you're heading off and bring in defensive guys on or girls in this case. Um, which is not something we've seen really in, in the, in the PLL version of sixes. I, I, I tried to watch for it in the, the second game. Um, and it, it,

[00:06:50] didn't seem to be a big thing that, that was happening. It, it, it happened some, uh, you know, miles Jones was not playing a ton of defense, but he did. And he would start on the defensive end. Whereas got, uh, some of the, the girls like Kylie O Miller, I don't think I ever saw her on the defensive end. The second a shot went, she, she took off to the box. So, um, that was interesting.

[00:07:14] And then I thought it was so weird and we'll get into specific, uh, players and performances here in a minute, but every kind of standout performer on the field in that first game, I thought was a charm player. Yeah. Yeah. They went four for four on face off. So, I mean, that's a, yes, a unique spot there. And, uh, the goalies were both pretty comparable. It looks like 11 saves for both. It looks like, um, you know,

[00:07:43] the, the, the charging may have got one more shot off. Um, waters was 44%. And I'm, I'm going to butcher her last name, but I think it's duquette maybe, um, for the charge. I think it's duquette. I think is, I think is what it is. I, someone can let us know if we're wrong. We're probably both wrong. They're going to make actually it's French or something.

[00:08:07] But she was 45.8. So like I said, probably one more shot for the charm than the, um, or yeah, for, for the charm rather than the charging. Um, but both very comparable. I thought they both played awesome. Um, especially for the lack, not the lack of, but there wasn't as much focus on the two. I don't, I mean, I'll have to look and see if there were any taken in the game.

[00:08:31] Um, I don't see any, but, um, you know, very, it looks, it looks like it's very well balanced. Um, you know, both ends, like I said, the game came down to the wire. So, uh, it'll be, it'll be really interesting, but like you said, you know, it felt like the charm had not, not the more stars, but you know, just, they just jumped out a little bit more.

[00:08:54] Yeah. No, I think, I think for the sake of what we're talking about, that's not a bad way to put it, that, that the stars of the game all felt like they were playing for the charm. And yet the charging were the team that won, it felt very like a strange kind of juxtaposition, uh, of, of stars versus, you know, just kind of evenly spread.

[00:09:21] That being said, uh, the charging did have Emily, uh, Harashuk who was also one of the stars, but, um, Well, if you can, if you'll let me say it, it felt like the charging had a bunch of Xander Dixons on their team, right? You know, guys that are, you know, or in this case, girls that are, you know, just kind of cleaning up on the crease, you know, in that kind of five yard and in range. Um, it looks like they had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight different goal scorers.

[00:09:49] Um, so it felt like they were spreading the wealth a little bit better. Um, and like I said, just a bunch of, you know, more inside shots. I mean, there was a bunch of really, really impressive plays, a lot of shot, like backhanded shovel shots, um, with a, which in my limited experience with a woman's stick, I wouldn't have even gotten close. So no, I know.

[00:10:13] I, I can't, I can't even imagine being able to play with the sticks that, that these girls do. Like I, I am blown away, obviously the kind of, I think the big star coming out of this game is Sydney Black. Um, she, she kind of had a little bit of a quiet second half, but that first half, she was incredible. She was everywhere. She finished with five points on four goals and an assist.

[00:10:41] Uh, she was the one that, that Twitter was blowing up about for, for most of that, that game. I thought arguably the best player on the field was Kaylee Waters, the, the charm goalie. Crazy to me that she, uh, when I looked up and saw that she finished at 44%, I was like, wait, what? I mean, she looked like Liam Intamin out there. She was making crazy saves that you would not expect a goalie to be making.

[00:11:09] Um, I thought, I thought she was incredible. And when I saw 44%, I was like, what Joe Keegan did put out a stat later in the, in the PLL game that said the PLL average in sixes is 40%. So 44 is actually a pretty, a pretty above average number, um, for, for a sixes game. Um, it's just coming from, you know, a regular kind of field game, you'd see 44 and you'd be

[00:11:37] like, Oh, that's, that's rough, but she was incredible. And then, like you said, uh, Jillian Wilson was, uh, the, the draw person for, uh, the charm. And she, like you said, she went four for four. Um, that I thought their defense was really good. Uh, again, especially in that first half. And again, other than, than Emily, uh, Harris Shuck and then Madison Douchette, I couldn't tell you a standout performer beyond those.

[00:12:07] Like you said, it was, it was cleaning up little things. It was spreading the ball fairly evenly. Um, Izzy's gain had, had a couple of good goals, but I, you know, she wasn't, she didn't, she didn't really pop off the screen, which, which kind of surprised me. You and I down the stretch though. I mean, she had a couple of, I think she had, she finished with two goals. I want to say at least one of those was in the fourth quarter, maybe even late in the fourth quarter. I want to say it was both of them.

[00:12:34] If it was definitely one for sure, but I want to say it was both of them. Yeah. So, I mean, she's the captain of that team, right? Yes. Yes. I mean, obviously you want, once your captain kind of stepping up in those big moments and, and she did, and, um, obviously they, they came on top of the wind. So, uh, really great game. And going back to the goal is it looks like both teams are very comparable on shots. Like I said, there was one more shot for the charging than, um, than the charm, but the

[00:13:03] charm shot 37.1% and the charging shot 38.9. So, um, you know, it's a game of interest. Yeah. Yeah. It felt, it felt like, it felt like a very even game that was played two completely different ways. Like we said, charm was, was kind of these star performers leading their team and charging was just, you know, kind of everybody chipping in and doing their part.

[00:13:28] And, um, that, especially that second half, I, you said you picked charging. I, we're both kind of women's lacrosse outsiders learning, learning the game. And, uh, I had heard a lot of people saying, Hey, this charging roster is really, really good. And I, I kind of got that feeling walking away, even without the star performers, it felt like,

[00:13:55] okay, yeah, this is, this is a very good group of teammates, you know, like they're gonna, they're gonna go very far based on, on how well they play together. Yep. Um, one, one real quick thing before we switch gears, the, the, you can't play zone defense caught me way off guard.

[00:14:24] I don't know if you, if you caught that when the, during the game, I did not catch that. Yeah. Apparently in, in women in, in the WLL sixes. So I went and looked this up cause I was like, what that I've never heard that rule. I didn't know if it was a rule in sixes in general. I didn't know if it was a rule for the PLL or not. Cause I'd never heard it. So I went and looked it up. It's not a rule for the PLL championship series. It is not a rule for men's or women's at the international level.

[00:14:53] So I put out some feelers. It's apparently about women's safety. Um, you know, they have, they have some different rules about like, uh, spacing and, and shot safety and stuff. So it's apparently about that, but I thought it was interesting. That it's a, it's a rule in this WL, WLL version of sixes, but not at the international level where typically rules are a little bit more stringent at the international level. So, yeah.

[00:15:21] Well, I do remember there was a, I think it was called a walling penalty that was called on the defense and I didn't catch the full explanation of it, but they did mention that it was a player safety thing. And I guess, you know, maybe it's like an intentional step into a shooting lane or, um, you know, I didn't catch that. So I'll have to do a little bit of research on that before. Yeah. Yeah. I, I heard, I heard the walling call like you, but I, I didn't, I didn't ever get the, um,

[00:15:49] the explanation either. So part of, part of learning the women's game clearly is going to be that learning the rules, learning the rules. And, uh, you know, um, I am interested. Um, I tweeted before the game, just before we moved to the PLL game. Um, I tweeted before the game, the, uh, TLN put out a video about Olympic sixes and kind of how we got here and what the future looks like and stuff like that.

[00:16:19] And while not expressly said it is, it is heavily, heavily, uh, insinuated that the WLL will be a sixes lead. Um, and I, I'm wondering what, what you think of that work. Like we've said, we're both kind of women's lacrosse outsiders a bit.

[00:16:44] Um, and I, I'd imagine that while we both celebrate lacrosse in all of its forms, I had imagined that we're both a little bit of traditionalists. Um, and so I'm, I'm just wondering what, what you thought about what you think about hearing that. I don't know if you heard it. Yeah. So to me, the, the women's game lends itself better to being a sixes game because of,

[00:17:14] the lack of long poles. I mean, I think if the men's game were to go permanent sixes, you're isolating, maybe, I mean, it's obviously going to be easier for kids to grow up, you know, specializing and it won't be specializing, but it'll be just only playing with a short stick. But, you know, unfortunately on the men's side, you know, there's going to be a whole crop of guys. Um, you know, we're talking about, um, you know, LSMs and D pulls that, you know, really

[00:17:41] just aren't going to be, you know, candidates to make an Olympic team because of the format. Um, on the women's side, you know, they all play with short sticks. Um, and now while some of these women's players had, you know, defense backgrounds and we saw more of the shift changes, I think that will be an easier transition than, you know, the men that are used to playing with short sticks and long poles, you know, go into a full-time sixes model.

[00:18:11] Um, I had a great time watching tonight. Um, and that, you know, like I said, it's kind of my first exposure to any type of women's lacrosse. Um, so I had a great time watching that. So I, I wouldn't mind on that side, on the men's side, I would be a little disappointed. Um, but, um, you know, the kind of the, you know, allure of sixes is the access. Um, and, you know, being able to say, okay, well, we have, you know, 12 sticks and, you

[00:18:41] know, if we're going to go, you know, if we're going to take it to, you know, somewhere in Africa, you know, we, oh, we don't have long poles, you know, we're not going to be competitive in the, in the men's game because, you know, we're not used to playing with the long sticks, you know, for the women's game, it it's the same stick regardless. So, uh, like I said, I think it lends itself better to that, you know, transition to a full-time sixes league. Yeah. I hadn't, I hadn't really thought about that aspect of it. I thought more about, you know, kind of what we were losing.

[00:19:11] Um, but do you, you bring up some, some good points, um, for sure. I'm sure this is going to be something that, that especially as we move closer and closer to the Olympics, that it's going to become more and more of a hot topic. I just, I just wanted to get your, your thoughts on that real quick. Uh, let's, let's switch gears into the PLL game. The Atlas blow away the whips, um, 13 to 25.

[00:19:39] Um, again, like with the, with the WLL game kind of, let's start more, more kind of broad and, and, and what were your, what were your overall thoughts about the game as a whole? Uh, Jim Stagnita is going to bed a very disappointed man tonight. Uh, I mean, they asked him about a pregame, you know, Jim, we know you hate to lose like what's different this year. Clearly not much.

[00:20:05] Um, you know, unfortunately they are a team that, um, has some NLL guys and, um, obviously, um, they made the trade for, for Matt Brandow. And it sounded like the rosters had to be finalized before that trade was finalized. And so that's what I've heard. Yeah. That was kind of, uh, I don't know, like, uh, I don't know what the word I'm trying to use there, but you, you, you feel like you could almost circumvent that a little bit, but

[00:20:34] I guess you've already told that guy that he's coming and, um, he's asking off work and all that stuff. So, um, you know, it, it sucks on that front, but yeah, just more of the same of, of the first year. Um, and I mean, that was look great. Um, they are built for sixes. I think, um, you know, if you look at just the box score, I mean, I think it was four twos

[00:21:01] for Atlas and two for, um, the whip snakes and I mean, Liam Mintzman, like you were talking about earlier, I mean, still, uh, I mean, 54% isn't an awesome stat line in a field game, but when the average in a sixes game is 40%, and I think he went 54%, I mean, 57. Yeah. Yeah. 57.7. Yeah. I mean, and he, he stole some, I mean, it wasn't, he was making great saves, but he stole,

[00:21:29] I mean, at least two, maybe even three goals. Um, and like they were, they were talking about in the, in the post game presser, that's momentum. And especially sixes lacrosse is such a game of momentum because it doesn't stop. I mean, you pull the ball out of the back of the goal and keep going. And, you know, when the Atlas, when Enemann makes, makes that crazy save, Atlas comes down

[00:21:56] scores, you know, you got to go right back at him and say, man, he just, I mean, he's dead on his head right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Are you, are you a soccer guy at all? Not particularly. I love watching it when we're wearing the stars and bars. Um, but other than that, uh, I don't watch a ton of it. Okay. There, there was a, I'm a big Manchester United fan and we had a goalkeeper for, uh, about a decade, um, named David De Gea.

[00:22:26] And we, I used to always say David De Gea is the best shot stopper, uh, in, in the world. There were other elements of the game where maybe other guys were better or at least, you know, kind of closed the gap on him. And you may not necessarily think that David De Gea was the best goalkeeper just all around in the world, but in terms of stopping the ball, he was absolutely the best in the world.

[00:22:55] And that's kind of what I was thinking about Liam Entemann tonight, watching that game was Liam Entemann, I think might be the best shot stopper in the world right now. There may be, there are, there are other elements where maybe, you know, blaze or, or Dauber or, or, or somebody, uh, closes that gap and, and maybe they are ultimately all around, you know, commanding their defense outlet passes.

[00:23:22] The, the, the total encompassing picture of what a goalie is, they may be better than him, but just in terms of stopping the ball from going in the net, I, I can't imagine, I can't think of anyone that's better than him again, blazing Dauber. And I'm not saying he's, you know, head and shoulders above everybody, but like, he, tell me I'm a hook. He routinely steals them.

[00:23:51] Right, right, right. Goal, goals that, that, or shots that should be goals. He, he stops routinely, like you said, routinely. He reminds me a lot of Jack Kincannon a couple of years ago. Yes. I mean, he was good for one or two of those a game where you're just like, okay, well, he's, he's three feet from the net. It's a goal. And somehow or another, Jack Kincannon comes up with the ball. That's exactly what Liam Miniman does. The, the difference is, and I love Jack Kincannon.

[00:24:20] I'm not throwing shade. He, I, I very much argued that he was way better than, than he was giving credit for. I am a big Jack Kincannon fan. But the difference is that Jack Kincannon robbed a few goals that, that should have been goals. He, he kept them off the board, but then he gave up a few that he should have had easily. Liam Miniman doesn't do that. Liam Miniman makes the saves he should make.

[00:24:50] And then two or three times a game is going to steal one too. Um, so he, he is a difference maker in that, um, going back to what you were saying about Jim Stagnita. I thought it was so funny that during the halftime of the WLL game, they had Paul Rabel in the booth and they, when they started talking about the upcoming PLL game later, he called Jim Stagnita the best pro lacrosse coach in history.

[00:25:21] And I don't, I don't know if that's true. That might be a conversation for a different podcast on a different day. The guy is still active. He's not a head coach, but he's still active. Who? Um, why am I drawing a blank on his name right now? Resch. Coach Resch. I thought, I thought of Resch too. I, I, I thought, would we say, would we say he's better than, than Pat, than, uh, Resch?

[00:25:47] Um, again, that, that's a conversation for a different day. I don't want to get too deep into that. I just thought it was so funny that you said that, you know, an hour before he, he goes Oh, in five with the whips in sixes. And I don't, I know in 2023 when he was, I know lots of people were saying that he, Jim Stagnita hates sixes.

[00:26:17] There's a, there's a level of as good as he is in, as a, as a coach in the PLO, there's a level of almost like he just doesn't understand sixes or something. Like, I don't, I don't know because I mean, you could, you could see this, this coming when they release rosters. Like you, you could look at that roster and it was clearly the worst roster of the four teams. It was clearly not well put together.

[00:26:46] And it, and it showed as, as bad. It was every bit as bad as, as I think most of us thought it would be. Yeah. I mean, a little bit of a head scratcher to me and I understand he has three goals tonight, but Matt ran like, what does Matt Rambo do in playing sixes? He's not going to go up and down for you. So he, so you're running. So you've got a guy that's now gonna have to pick up his defensive shifts and you're thinking

[00:27:13] you're probably going to be behind on some, you know, getting back in transition because I mean, I haven't, I can't say that I've like sat down and watched Matt Rambo run. I can't imagine it's very fast. Um, I mean, and it looks like, I mean, TJ Malone had one, one goal tonight, no assist shot 14.3%. Now, obviously this is his first time playing sixes, but I mean, it's, it's, it's a big learning gap.

[00:27:43] I mean, Ryan Conrad and Brad Smith were as advertised. Uh, it looks like both of them had five points. They both shot above 40%, which is about all you can ask for in a sixes game. Um, but no help. No help. Yeah. It is. I mean, Roman Puglisi locked down his guy on defense pretty much all night. He's just not, he's just not helping you on the other end. Like at all. Yeah.

[00:28:12] And I mean, it looks like what do we have for only four goal scorers, Conrad Smith, Rambo and TJ. And it doesn't look, let's see. And then every, yeah, everybody else had shots, but. So it's, it's funny that you say that. So they had four goal scorers. Atlas had six guys with three points or more. Including two. Including two that had eight.

[00:28:42] Costabile's right there in the middle of the golden stick race again. Yes. And like we were talking about earlier, I mean, Xander Dixon, I mean, just, I don't know. It took for this field to be this small. Xander Dixon is just like a ninja on offense because he gets, he's so open every time he catches the ball. Yeah. And then it's effortless. I mean, it's, it's him taking a stick and saying, yep, I'm going to put it right in the back of the net right now.

[00:29:10] And it just happens every time he shot 62% tonight, 62 and a half percent tonight. That's insane. It's unreal. Yeah. Yeah. And they were just, they were well-rounded. I mean, Vernon Jacoby, four points, a goal, a two goal, two bomb and an assist. Dylan Malloy, five goals, one of those being a two and two assists. I mean, just production all over the place.

[00:29:40] My, my only issue with Dylan Malloy, and again, this is going to sound like I'm throwing shade and I'm really not trying to, is that, let me see, what did I, what did I, I took this note down. Where is it at? Here we go. Six of his eight points came after there were less than five minutes in the third quarter or later. So it was all kind of garbage time after they were already up by like 10 points. I, I looked at it.

[00:30:08] If no one, if no one on Atlas scored after he scored that, that first of those last six, he had, he had a goal and assists in the first quarter. If no one score, including him scores after the time he scores that first goal in the third quarter, they still win the game 14, 13. Wow.

[00:30:30] So I felt like a lot of his work was done kind of once the game was out of hand and it just, I don't know. I, eight points ain't nothing to, to sniff at. Like I'm not trying to dump on him too much, but I thought Brian Costabile's eight points, the difference between those two was, was pretty drastic. Brian Costabile was, was putting up his points and driving that team.

[00:31:00] Um, whereas as Dylan Malloy kind of, kind of helped pile on towards the end. Um, I, I don't know what, what future. I saw some people saying that like Dylan Malloy should be a starter in the PLL. And I'm like, uh, I just don't, I don't, I don't see it. I don't, I don't think he's a starter in, in the PLL. Not with, not with the eight teams that are out there right now.

[00:31:26] You know, if we, we add two more and we got 10 maybe, but he's not a starter at attack. That's, that's for sure. No, no. Right. Right. That there's that, that highlight of him kind of mid late of the fourth quarter. He kind of dodges hard at his man, kind of bull dodges him a bit, creates a half a step and then steps back and rips it from just inside the two point line.

[00:31:52] Um, and I was like, yeah, that's, that's not a, that's not an attack play right there. Like that's, that, that's something that he could do at the midfield. Although his. Well, you're not doing that against the pole. Right. Right. So. Especially not a, you know, traditional pole that's bigger, that weighs more. And obviously Dylan Malloy's a big guy. He's, he's getting some space on just about everybody. Yeah.

[00:32:16] But he's not getting that much space on a Graham Hossack or a Garrett Apple or a traditional, just like big, you know, defender. And not from 12 yards. Yeah. So, uh, the, speaking of big, um, miles Jones, I feel like he, he is built for the, the sixes game. I think he could, he can get to any spot he wants. And if you should, he had, he finished with five points. He really should have finished with seven. He hit two pipes.

[00:32:46] It wasn't a three. It was at least two. It was at least two. And from less than five yards. Yep. Cause he was, you know, coming down the, the, you know, the, I guess the left side kind of putting a shoulder on a guy and then getting to three feet on, on guarded. Yeah. Um, yeah, he's going to be a monster once he gets that going. Yeah. My, my worry.

[00:33:11] And I think it played out a little bit in this game is, is his ability to go the whole game. Um, I thought he, I really thought he kind of faded. There were a lot of times early in the game. He's, he's involved, he's pushing, he's setting picks, he's doing stuff. And that, and that third and fourth quarter, I saw him standing up in the, in the corner up by the, the, the midfield line a lot, which, which kind of helped create some space. He, cause, cause the whips were pressing out.

[00:33:41] And so he, he had kind of dragged somebody else, which had created some other space. So it's not like, uh, you know, this big thing, but it, it just, it really felt like, especially he, he ran a few, a few runs on defense. And it just felt like he, he kind of just didn't have the gas to, to just do that all day. But especially early in the game, he can get anywhere on the field he wants to. And if you deny him, he'll, he'll pull up and take the shot.

[00:34:09] Like he, he's got no, no qualms. And then he also has it off. Right. Right. I was going to say, or he has, he has the vision people, people seriously underrate miles Jones's vision. Um, and forget that miles Jones, I don't know if he was first team, but he was an all pro in 2021. First he was, I want to say he was a first team, all pro midfielder and, and 2021.

[00:34:36] I mean, he, you know, I guess we're four years past that now, but he's still got game. My, my hot take is that if his name was Tom Schreiber in 2021, he would have been the MVP.

[00:34:50] Uh, again, that might be a conversation for another podcast on a different day, but, uh, but yeah, people, people have definitely forgotten how good miles Jones is and, and can be. So, you know, that was, that was definitely, uh, something to see. I, I don't know about you. I felt watching that game, like, holy crap.

[00:35:18] I, I might have to, I might have to change my pick for this, this championship. I want to temper it slightly because it's the whips. And we, we said, I mean, coming, coming in, we knew they were going to be the worst team. Um, so I would like to see them against, I think the other two teams are, uh, favorites for sure.

[00:35:42] You know, you have the returning champs and the cannons, and then you have, uh, the archers, uh, who we can get into in just a second. We'll look forward a little bit, but, um, but I think both teams think they, they can come here and win this. So I'd like to see them play against that before I really try and change it. But I mean, all you can do is beat the team in front of you and they. A wins, a wins, a win. Right. Right.

[00:36:08] Um, before we go any further, I do want to point out the Atlas did get a ton of production from their defense guys. So Tyler Carpenter, three points on a two bomb and an assist. Rizanka had a goal. Uh, Camizio had an assist. I don't know if you call Keegan Con a midfielder or a D middie, but he had a goal. Um, it looks like, it looks like all of their forwards. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, maybe not all of them. Yeah.

[00:36:38] The only ones that I could think of were Kobe. Kobe Smith didn't have a point. That's the only one. That's the only one of their 10 field players that didn't have a point. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, no, they, they, we talked about it with, with charging, kind of spreading the ball out. Everybody getting, getting in. I thought, I thought check Camizio was everywhere. He was doing it. He was doing it on both ends.

[00:37:07] He was blocked down on defense. Um, strip the ball, uh, several, I don't know. Do you have it up? Maybe, maybe, you know, I don't, I think he had three. Okay. Yeah. So three cause turnovers, uh, pushing the ball in transition. Um, I, I don't remember what you just said. I think he had a pointer or several points, but, um, an assist. So, uh, you know, got his name, name in the statue for sure.

[00:37:32] But I thought even beyond that, he was, he was pushing it in transition, getting it to his office. He was, he was everywhere. I thought he, he stood out to me. I think, I think all of their, you know, defensive guys played well, but he really kind of popped off the screen to me in terms of what he was doing. So, so yeah, that's, that's crazy good. And, you know, we'll, we'll see it Thursday is going to be, going to be interesting to see.

[00:38:02] So, um, but before we get to Thursday, Oh, you know what? Before we, before we get into tomorrow, I wanted to say two things, same thing, but both things. Uh, I forgot to mention the first WLL goal ever was scored by Kylie O'Miller in her first game back in nearly three years. It was like two and a half years.

[00:38:28] Um, she tore her MCL and ACL. And then right as she was about to come back, she tore the same MCL and ACL again and was out again. Um, so it was really cool to see her score the first goal, uh, of the WLL.

[00:38:49] Um, I, I think she is one of the big names in the game and hopefully she continues this recovery and gets back to everything we know she can be. Um, it was great to see her score. Similarly, Brad Smith also back from a long, long hiatus. So he, he's been out about 18 months to, I think it's two PLL seasons, but it's about, it's about 18 months based on, on where this is.

[00:39:18] Um, from what, from what I could tell us, it was about 18. I think they said it went during an interview. It was like 530 some odd days or something, which is right at about 18 months. He scored the first goal of the PLL game and then scored several more times and ended up, um, arguably as the best, the best player on the whips team, uh, today. So, um, really cool to see both of those things.

[00:39:46] Um, do guy love Brad Smith. Um, I like, I like Brent a lot. The only whip player that I'm like, that is my guy. Um, and he is a problem in sixes, you know, if he, if he was on a better team, I mean, he would be lights out for me. Five goals in that performance or five points in that performance. It's incredible. Like he is so good. He's such a problem. Um, but let's, let's look forward tomorrow.

[00:40:15] WLL, we have the guards playing the palms. Uh, you and I are both admitted kind of outsiders to the women's game. I don't know a ton about these teams. I know Allie Mascherani is the captain of the palms. I don't know much about her period other than her name, that she's a big thing. Uh, I am pretty good friends with Casey who, uh, small who runs Shakespeare's school lacrosse.

[00:40:42] And, um, Allie is one of his like big clients. She's been with him forever. Um, and then obviously the guard is Charlotte North, uh, who is. Are arguably the biggest name in the game right now. Um, I was a little surprised that they didn't start tonight with Maryland, the hometown team against Boston with the biggest name in the game.

[00:41:09] Um, the only thing I thought, I, I, I thought about it for a while and I thought maybe the idea was hometown team one night. Hopefully maybe they get a win and then biggest name in the game night to keeping people coming back. Uh, you know, I don't know. I was trying to, but I looked at it cause I was thinking the same thing on the men's side. I'm thinking, why don't you have a championship rematch with archers whips? And then I was like, okay, well, you know, New York, I mean, and I guess the only teams

[00:41:37] that don't have a corresponding WL team, you know, obviously there's the palms and the archers. Yeah. So I was thinking, okay, maybe they're just doing, you know, New York and Maryland and New York and Maryland, but they could have done the same thing with Boston too. So, um, interesting, you know, scheduling and, um, maybe they're trying, I don't know. They are doing it, the archers and the chaos or, uh, archers and palms have been linked and then everyone else is paired.

[00:42:06] So like if charm is playing, the whips are also playing and you know, all for the whole duration. Um, but yeah, no, it's the scheduling seemed a little, it felt like there was maybe some better matchups, but again, women's lacrosse outsiders don't maybe. Those are the two big teams. You know, I don't know. Um, any, any predictions on, on guard palms?

[00:42:35] I think Charlotte North hits too. Um, I'm pumped to watch her play. Um, she, she did my boy Dobson dirty and one of the little one-on-ones and you got us get back in the second one. So I'm excited to see around three of that, but overall, I mean, obviously pumped to see Charlotte play, uh, and all the rest of the super talented women. And, uh, I think it's going to be another barn burner hopefully. And although the, the over under, I did look that up.

[00:43:03] Uh, the over under did close at 29. So the game did go under, um, the one today. Yes. Gotcha. 29 and a half. Um, so it did go under, but, um, really, I, I mean, it still felt like a barn burner to me. It like, it went right down to the wire and I think that'll happen again tomorrow night. So really excited about it. Yeah. So the, uh, Charlotte North is one of the few things that I know I, and I did, you mentioned you missed the unleashed, uh, all-star game last year.

[00:43:32] I did catch it and she was incredible. I also watched a lot of the women's world box lacrosse championships. Um, she was incredible in that as well. Uh, so between that and the fact that I live about 50 minutes from Boston, uh, and there is no, there's no North Carolina team. There's no team that I've been affiliated with. Uh, I just kind of decided, you know what? I'll, I'll pick the, I'll ride with the guard. Cause I don't, I don't know better. Yeah. I had heard best looking logo in my opinion.

[00:44:02] And that's how I, that's how I picked my PLL team. So, um, that is how I picked my PLL team. I might disagree with you on whether or not that's the best looking WLL logo, but it is close. It's I have it up there. Uh, I think, I think I lean charging. Um, but ask me tomorrow and I might have a slightly different opinion. Um, but yeah, so the, the guard was kind of my, my pick.

[00:44:25] So I guess I'm going to ride with them and hope that, that tomorrow they show out and can win again. I don't, I don't know anything about that Palms team. Um, so I guess we'll, we'll find out. We'll see. This is, this is going to be a fun part of this show. This week is, is looking forward to the women's game.

[00:44:52] Come, come here for our intelligent analysis of the women's game. Um, but then after, after, actually, I think, I think tomorrow it's flipped. I think the PLL game is first, but the, uh, PLL game tomorrow is the archers versus the cannons. You and I became friends cause we both liked the archers.

[00:45:15] Uh, I now am relatively unaffiliated and the cannons are the closest team to me. I don't want to like them, but it's hard not to like the homens. The, the homens are great. The homens are great. I, I agree with you there. And I'm a big Asher guy. I know, I know you're a big Asher guy.

[00:45:41] Um, Matt, Matt Campbell, um, is, I mean, if I, if I, my golden stick pick is Mac O'Keefe, because I think he's just going to shoot from two all day and he's going to hit 40% of them. Probably that may be too high. He's going to hit a higher than average number of them. And it's going to be awesome. I cannot wait for that. Um, but Matt Campbell would be my second pick. Um, he, he runs out of the box with his, with his hair on fire and I really love his game.

[00:46:10] I think he'll be an Olympian. So, uh, Kier McArdle won the golden stick last year, but second, third and fourth were all cannons. It was Asher, Marcus, and then Matt Campbell. Um, Asher and Marcus finished on 31. I think Matt Campbell was like 28 or 27. Um, so I, I think Matt Campbell's a, a, a great pick. I picked Marcus.

[00:46:37] Um, I think, I think he, him and Asher. He's currently the best shooter in the world. Yes. That man will soon be turned over to Mac O'Keefe. Oh, what, what, uh, what made me not pick Mac O'Keefe was Grant Amitt missing. Um, and not that they can't get him the ball and not that he can't create his own shot as he's, as he's shown capable of doing.

[00:47:05] Um, I think he's at his best when he can do both. And I don't know who's going to get him the ball. They might figure it out. They might show up tomorrow and, and there are six guys that can get him the ball in his spots. Um, but I just feel like. I was admittedly bullish on Jackson moral. Uh, when he came out, he was that terrible year for the Chrome.

[00:47:35] He was the only bright spot for the Chrome. And while it's not a one for one replacement for Grant Amitt, because you would have to have called Tom Schreiber down from Toronto to do that. Um, he, he is more of a facilitator. I remember actually went to that. I think it was the, it actually might've been the PLO game that we met at, uh, the archers played the Chrome and Jackson moral Taurus up for like six points.

[00:48:01] Now he, I mean, six points, you know, turned into probably six goals. I mean, that was probably, he probably scored or assisted on all their goals. Oh, um, I'm you and you for a minute. Let, let, let Jackson finish his point. Um, but yeah, like I said, not a one for one replacement, but he is going to step in and he, he's more of a facilitator. We have plenty of scores. I mean, Ryan Augerman can shoot it from anywhere.

[00:48:30] Uh, I'm bullish on Cole Williams this year. Um, just another big body Dodger. Um, and I mean, for some reason, and this is, I'm going a little bit off track for some reason. I saw on an Instagram post that Mason Woodward was like the eighth best odds to win the golden stick. I don't know where they're getting that from. They may have something more than I do, but he's obviously shown that he's not afraid to shoot the two ball. And I'm here for it.

[00:48:59] He's going to be in the black cleats, like a, like a demon, you know, just gritty. Let's just, you know, rip some twos. The, I have to say the cannons were my pick to win it all. So, uh, real quick, we got, uh, we are joined by Dre from the Dre lacks podcast. He is our man on the ground at the championship series, uh, this week. Um, Dre, how are you doing, man? Good.

[00:49:27] You know, I mean, the snow was crazy, so there wasn't a lot of people in attendance. Uh, but there, there was at least like, I want to say at least like 60 some people in the building, but for the people that did show up, they got one hell of a show. But I like, like I said on Twitter, one of the coolest things was seeing, um, like during the, during the WLL game, there was this group of like girls that were very clearly charm fans.

[00:49:54] And there was this group of girls on the other side that was very clearly charging fans. And, you know, both sides, both of those groups of girls were rooting for their team. And it was one of those ones where it kind of brought me back to like my young fandom where you, where, you know, it's a game and it's a tightly contested game. And, you know, one of the teams got to lose, unfortunately. And, you know, I was just like, wow, one of those groups of girls is going to be really happy.

[00:50:23] And one of them is going to still be excited. They got to see the game, but they're going to be sad. Their team didn't lose, didn't win. And, you know, that's going to be like a interesting moment. And also I just loved how excited the fans were. Like it, like there was not a lot of people, it was not sold out. It was like, I mean, if the, if the weather had been better, I'm sure it would have been more full, but everybody that was there was excited during both games too. It was just fun.

[00:50:50] And hopefully the Whipsnakes have a better showing because the Atlas dog walked them from like, it was, it was, it was unreal. Like no Jeff Teat, no Schellenberger in the Atlas. We're still smoking them. Yeah. Well, Jackson and I were talking to the Whips have the worst roster at the championship series. And Staggs is a great coach, but there's something about sixes.

[00:51:20] Like he just, he just doesn't do it. Like he just, it's not his game. So Dre, you are a little bit more in tune with the women's game, at least, at least more so than, than, than us are wondering what your, what your thoughts are about the guard palms game tomorrow. Um, honestly. Okay.

[00:51:43] On paper, the guard has a much more stacked roster than the palms because the guard have the best women's player on the planet in Charlotte North. And so we'll see how that goes. But I do want to just add a lot of the, a lot of the matchups that should have been tight,

[00:52:10] more tightly contested or did look to swing in favor of the opposite team has been surprising. We've gotten surprises out of both. So I, I think the palms are going to put up a good fight, but I think the guard are going to take this one. I don't necessarily have a score prediction in my mind. If I had to guess, I, I think Charlotte's probably going to get a hat trick. She'll be the second player in the WLL to get a hat trick.

[00:52:38] Um, but I think teams are going to do kind of what, um, the charging we're starting to do with Sydney black and they're going to slide to Charlotte early. And that's going to open up the rest of her teammates to get hot and score. Cause, um, we've seen, you know, we've seen kind of like what goes on with Izzy Skane where, you know, teams start to double or slide early and a prolific player will go from being a straight

[00:53:07] up shooter to a assist person. Kind of like what happens when you've tried to double or slide early to Jeff T you think he can, he only can score on you. Now he can beat you with assist too. So it'll be fine. All right. Uh, Dre, we've been, we've been going for, for a while. Uh, I'm going to, I'm going to end it with this question and I'm probably going to ask you guys every day that if you're, if you're on, I'm going to ask you every day, if you change

[00:53:37] your mind, you change your mind. I don't imagine that you guys will right now. And I'll start with Jackson. Give me your WLL champion, your PLL champion and your golden sick winners. Oh, um, okay. Jackson. Yeah. Today I responded to Chris Rosenthal's tweet and I'm going to stick with it for right now.

[00:54:01] Um, I have Mac O'Keefe winning the golden stick, leading the archers to a championship, uh, the first PLL double. Um, and then I have the old trend, um, of the golden stick going to a player on the lose, the championship loser, uh, being Charlotte North losing to the, uh, New York charging. All right, Dre, what'd you got? Um, you know, I, man, I liked the, I liked the, the grit.

[00:54:30] Um, so I have, I have the, the charm losing to the Boston guard. Um, and I have Sydney black getting the golden steak. I just, based off what I saw today, I think the charm are going to bounce back. And I just, um, you know, one of the team, one of the home, the home field teams is going to get, get it to the championship game.

[00:54:56] And then for the men's, um, my, my, uh, golden stick, I can, I definitely think it's going to be Mac O'Keefe just cause this is a format that's built up for him. But I see the, the Atlas winning the, um, on the men's side. I just, you know, that the, like with how they looked today, I don't think anybody, but

[00:55:25] the Atlas can beat the Atlas. I just don't, unfortunately, you know? Uh, but I just say that mostly because Liam for being a championship series rookie, he just looks so dialed up. Like I just, and I mean, I will say that out of all the goalies in championship series, he's right now the best one, but Hey, it's a long week. Anything can change. Yeah.

[00:55:54] And like I said, I'm going to be asking you guys every day that you're here. You guys may not be on every day, but every day that you were here, be prepared to answer that question. Uh, today, uh, similar to Jackson, I, I answered Chris Rosenthal's tweet as well. Uh, and I picked, uh, Marcus Holman and the cannons to be my PLL champion and, uh, golden stick winner. I'm going to stick with that for today.

[00:56:22] We'll see what, what happens with the game tomorrow. And then my WLL, uh, same thing, double, double and up on, on both of them. I got, I got Charlotte North right now and, and the guard, uh, as the champion. So, uh, with that being said, I appreciate you guys for joining us. Uh, I will be back tomorrow for sure. For everyone listening. Um, these guys might be with us.

[00:56:51] I know Dre, uh, is, is on the ground, but he has to travel back and we're trying to get these done, um, kind of while the games are fresh, um, and giving you guys something to listen to in the morning on the way to work as the primer. So we'll see, hopefully we will, we will have some people in and out throughout the week. Um, again, guys, I really appreciate you joining us. Yeah. See you. Thanks for having me though. All right, guys. See you guys. See you.