(Poorly) Predicting the Future

Neil Barrett (00:11.563)
Welcome, welcome, welcome to the run out. I am Neil Barrett. He is Brandon Hooten. We have a lot of fun and goofy things to talk about this week. But what before we do all of that, Brandon, what you've been up to the last week since since last we hung out.

Brandon Hooten (00:32.174)
not much. Shot in Air Force game over the weekend.

Brandon Hooten (00:39.0)
Yeah, they put up a lot of points. Yeah, they scored a lot, but they still lost. Boise State is still a very good team. They had a running back going for five touchdowns.

Neil Barrett (00:40.557)
For those that can't see, have an Air Force shirt on. I did put up lot of points.

Neil Barrett (00:47.861)
or sleep in.

Brandon Hooten (00:55.99)
Yeah, after the fourth one he screamed out loud, I'm unstoppable. He was like, he, was, it was hilarious to see. Not for Air Force, but it was a good game nonetheless. And then did a high school game, I think I mentioned last week as well. So yeah, now back to the, nine to five, the fun, the fun times.

Neil Barrett (00:59.971)
And he was.

Neil Barrett (01:16.387)
Yeah, no, I feel you, feel you. I have done basically nothing. We ran around all weekend and did a bunch of errands stuff. So I was hoping to kind of relax and that did not happen. So I'm not even really all that prepared for this episode. I was telling you a little bit before we hopped on that I'm not nearly as prepared as I wanted to be and as I thought I would be at this point.

Brandon Hooten (01:29.346)
Of not.

Neil Barrett (01:44.801)
With all of that being said, let's just hop right into it. We're going to start with the NLL CBA word as coming out that they are, it sounds like they might be getting closer. Dawson J. Nielsen on Twitter posted that progress is being made. Sources say the NLLPA's latest proposal aligns with the league and governor's current offer, which is kind of interesting because everything that we had heard was that the

league's offer was lower than what it had been previously. So how they got on the same page, I don't really know, but I guess that's, that's pretty good news. I don't want people to think that we were, we just bash on the NLL after last week. So we definitely wanted to open up with this.

Brandon Hooten (02:33.899)
Yeah, and I would have to imagine that the the owners kind of came up on their offer Which is why this is kind of happening now. I can't imagine the players fighting that long and Then being like yeah, just kidding. We'll go for the lower offer I mean again This is all speculation. Maybe they did I don't know I would hope not for their sake but but nonetheless, it's good news, especially because Obviously if you listen to last week's episode we weren't

Neil Barrett (02:50.562)
Right.

Brandon Hooten (03:02.989)
too happy about it, specifically myself. So I feel better about this and just some other chatter I've heard, feel just better in general about the league and kind of where we're heading. So hopefully this is resolved here pretty soon, especially because then we can start seeing deals officially be signed. And there's a lot of guys right now that I think we kind of have a, not a clue, but we can infer where they're gonna sign, but we don't actually know. Guys like Nick Rose come to mind.

Neil Barrett (03:04.729)
you

Brandon Hooten (03:33.323)
I'm excited to see those kind of unfold. Obviously for him it's looking like Toronto is going to be back in play, but there's several other guys that I'm questioning if they go back to their team. So I'm just excited to get back to normal lacrosse stuff and then into training camp, you know, in October sometime and get going.

Neil Barrett (03:50.339)
Yeah, yeah, no, I think I think we can all agree that we want to see everybody get back on the floor and out of the board rooms and stuff and back on the floor where they belong playing the game. So that is hopefully very good news. Hopefully nothing changes on that. We just kind of keep trucking forward and get something done because, you know, I don't know. I don't know if you saw, but I'm I've already started making some plans to go.

Brandon Hooten (04:20.886)
I did, I did, yeah.

Neil Barrett (04:21.398)
Although. Although I do have to say I. I actually went a little bit earlier today to go see like how much how much are tickets? Can I go can I go get them out there? They're not up yet. I don't I don't know if that's because of the CBA or if this is like standard practice that, you know, tickets aren't really up until later until, you know, closer to the season or what. But I was like, man, I can't I can't even try and get into it.

Brandon Hooten (04:48.307)
Yeah, well, I think like I think the mammoth just posted something about when single game tickets would be on sale Looks like single game tickets go on sale at least for Colorado November 6th. So that's probably why Obviously season tickets are already That's a whole separate thing And that's what's weird is you can buy those I guess it makes sense because you want those to be kind of season ticket members first but so

I assume the rest of the legal kind of follows suit and be early November.

Neil Barrett (05:19.862)
early November. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it feels weird, but I guess it does make sense if you really kind of think about it. But I just like, man, we, I just want to go ahead and like get it. Cause if I have tickets, then that's going to make me more inclined. Like the longer that it, or the closer it gets to the date without me having tickets, the more likely it is that I'm not going to make the trip. So I was like, I want to, I want to actually do it this time, but

Let's move on to maybe some fun topics here. We're going to start with our way too early 2026 predictions. This is something we'll probably revisit maybe after the draft to see if we still think these things or what. Obviously, lots of these things will change, especially we will start with the WLL and I can

almost guarantee that none of these picks are going to be correct because so much is going to change for the WLL. But that was kind of the idea was that maybe it would be a little fun that, you know, after they do their collegiate draft or whatever, we can look at it and be like, no, we were way wrong. We want to change this or hey, maybe we got really lucky and the teams that we talk about and pick and whatever, pick up some really good players and we we write it out with them. So let's start first with

the championship series in February. Who who you picking for the WLL championship series winner at this point?

Brandon Hooten (06:53.548)
man.

Neil Barrett (06:58.146)
You might as well be throwing dirt at names on the floor.

Brandon Hooten (06:59.34)
yeah it's like a dartboard just

Brandon Hooten (07:05.6)
You know, I'm gonna roll with the west and go to California Palms.

Neil Barrett (07:13.506)
Dude, you're not going to believe this. W.L.L. Championship Series winner, my pick, California Palms. The same exact thing.

Brandon Hooten (07:19.818)
Yeah, yeah, I don't have a solid reasoning, but I just feel like second time around Boston's already won I feel like I feel like people are betting kind of heavy on New York so I feel like and and I don't know about Maryland with Like Alex Ost Holman, I know she was pregnant. So I'm not totally sure You know if she's playing or what?

Neil Barrett (07:39.562)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (07:45.583)
I would assume probably not because it'll be so shortly after the birth, but she won't be pregnant by then. So, I mean, it's possible, I guess.

Brandon Hooten (07:56.477)
Right, right, so we'll see about that. But yeah, I'm just gonna take the pumps and see what happens.

Neil Barrett (08:03.008)
I got I got two reasons why I picked the palms. One of them is Taylor Moreno in goal. Incredible. And the second one is Ali Mastroianni. I think she was one of my favorite players to watch in the championship series last year. And I think she just she just did just like just a hair under what she needed to do to get them in the

Brandon Hooten (08:09.58)
That's fair.

Neil Barrett (08:31.958)
the game last year, the championship game last year. And I think maybe she's going to come back with a little bit of a vengeance there. That being said, like you said, the guard won it last year. It's not going to be a big, shock to see them do it again this year. And the New York charging are, are arguably on paper, at least the best constructed roster. So like you said, I think, I think they were hurt last year by, I'm pretty sure if I remember correctly from

from gold rush when me and Jackson were doing that this past year, I'm pretty sure that they they were the team that played like four games in four days up to the championship and kind of kind of looked like it in the championship. So all that to say it like you said, it won't be all that surprising. I think I think the only thing that would surprise us at this point is the charm winning it all again, pre any signings pre any moves that they make based off of

Brandon Hooten (09:29.13)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (09:30.836)
off of their current roster. So who do you see winning the golden stick?

Brandon Hooten (09:44.724)
This is tough because it can be from a losing team.

Brandon Hooten (09:51.177)
And remind me, is it the most points? Okay, okay.

Neil Barrett (09:54.027)
Most points. And I'm assuming that they're going to do that again this year, even though I think most of us kind of hate it and wish that there was more of an actual MVP award. Because again, the people playing in the championship have an advantage over everyone else, because they're going to play an extra game. So.

Brandon Hooten (10:11.712)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (10:15.113)
Hmm, I'll... Tempted to go with the hot pick here just for the fun of it.

Neil Barrett (10:20.514)
Let's hear it.

Brandon Hooten (10:23.084)
think Sydney Black has a real chance if Holman doesn't play. I mean she has a chance regardless, but I think if you're missing a star teammate, like she's already incredible and I think you add on that absence. You know, as long as her team can make the championship, I think she has a good chance.

Neil Barrett (10:26.338)
Yeah, it's true. I mean, yeah, I was gonna say even this.

Neil Barrett (10:42.08)
Yeah. Yeah. That's what held her back last year. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's, I think that was a reason, a big thing that held her back last year and a big reason why people were kind of over the idea of it being the highest score, at least, at least in terms of the whole tournament. If you, if you want to do it, just the highest score for those, those four games, whatever it is that everyone plays fine. But yes, the Sydney black was, was right there and was really only

kind of out of the race because she wasn't in the final. So no, I like that pick. think that's a pretty solid pick. I took Allie Mastroianni. Again, like I said, I think she's gonna have a little chip on her shoulder, but I mean, you can't go wrong with a Charlotte North, especially this far out. I think Emily Harrischuck would be a good pick. I'm totally blanking on her name. Was it Rachel Clark? Who was the one in the final?

one of the girls in the final that just like exploded, like there are so many girls that could do it. then, and then like we talked about last year, there's, or last week, mean, there's plenty of girls that, are not currently on rosters who could probably win this award as well. So we'll see, we'll see what it looks like by the time these, these rosters come out for the championship series. But let's move over to the full season. Like we talked about last week,

The WLL is going to play a full 11 week season this coming year. Let's flip it up this time. Let's go MVP first. Who do you have for MVP?

Brandon Hooten (12:19.435)
Mmm

I it's going to be the same, the usual suspects. I'm looking through this list right now. This is tough.

Neil Barrett (12:37.505)
It is.

Brandon Hooten (12:39.849)
I'm even trying to think back to like the All-Star game and who played really well in that game. There was one that I want to say, but I just can't. I'm blanking on her name right now.

Neil Barrett (12:45.174)
Lots of girls.

Neil Barrett (12:52.236)
Who was it?

Brandon Hooten (12:54.251)
I'm trying to pull it off right now.

Brandon Hooten (13:00.843)
All I know is she had like 9 points or something like that. Like something ridiculous. Here we go. Here's the stats. Probably should have looked this up beforehand. But... Oh wait, it was Rachel Clark by the way in the All-Star game. 7 points.

Neil Barrett (13:15.51)
Yeah. Yeah, she's she's crazy because I remember watching that game and feeling like she played well. But then seeing the stats and being like, holy crap, she played way better than I even I've remembered her playing.

Brandon Hooten (13:32.435)
Yeah, I think I think she's a sneaky pick but like Izzy's skin was on another level though Like I don't I don't want to like just pick the favorite like you know a favorite but like She was going crazy in 10v10

Neil Barrett (13:35.841)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (13:39.597)
that's true. didn't even mention it.

Neil Barrett (13:47.523)
When I was going to say, I was going to say, I think there's a thing about Tim B 10 that Izzy skein excels at that, that maybe isn't necessarily her strength in sixes. So, uh, so yeah, no, think she's, I think Izzy skein is a great shout for a Tim B 10 MVP.

Brandon Hooten (14:09.641)
Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to go with her for the way too early pick.

Neil Barrett (14:13.922)
So my vote was Emily Harris, Chuck. But I almost want to say it's going to be one of the goalies that. You know, it's going to be Taylor Moreno or I've really, really liked Madison Doucet last year and then, you know.

Delaney Switzer is going to be in the league. She's not currently on a team though. She did play in the All-Star game. You know, I loved watching her play last year in college. So I could see that that kind of like blaze reardon thing, especially because I mean these, these goalies have been so good. I'm it's funny to say that I, as I'm looking at Delaney Switzer was

42 % and Taylor Moreno was 35 % in that all star game. But both of them at Delaney Switzer had 10 saves. Taylor Moreno had 13 saves. And Katie Glenn added another six saves for Delaney Switzer's team. So like that's just how many shots were being shot that like they they had pretty solid save numbers, but worth but their saves average was so low.

because there were just so many shots. There were 51 and 45 shots in this All-Star game. yeah, like I said. yeah, yeah.

Brandon Hooten (15:43.389)
And still felt like they were playing serious. So I can only imagine what some of these games I think are going to look like with an actual season. I don't think it's going to be that high scoring, but like I think it'll be higher scoring than we're kind of imagining.

Neil Barrett (15:49.58)
When that when it's yeah.

Neil Barrett (15:57.475)
Well, it'll, it'll be interesting to see because the WLL rules are faster and more like free flowing than like college rules. So when you look at a 24 to 20 scoreline, you're like, yeah, women's lacrosse is probably not going to be that high when we get into a season. But then it's also like, well, I mean, it is, like I said, it is a lot faster. It is a lot more kind of free flowing and stuff. So maybe that is going to be, I mean, maybe not quite 2024.

But, know, upper teens could be a fairly consistent score line potentially. let's let's move on over to maybe something that that we can maybe make some slightly more educated guesses at since rosters should be relatively more easily predicted. Let's let's head over to the PLL.

We will start also there with the championship series. Let's, let's hear who you got for the winner for anyone who just as a refresher, it will be the Atlas, the outlaws, the woods, and the chaos will be the four teams competing in the championship series. Almost all of these rosters will be missing big name guys who are playing in the NLL. So that's one of the kind of caveats to jump around here. I think the big,

the big one that's, or the, you know, the, the team that's going to be probably most effect. Well, depends on, I guess how you look at it. The chaos are going to be without pretty much all of their star players like that you're going to be left with. So blaze obviously is going to be gone. Owen Hiltz will be gone. Adam Sherwin, Beatty's will be gone.

pretty much every kind of top player that they have except for, guess, Jared Newman. I wonder if Jack Rowlett will even play.

Brandon Hooten (17:57.983)
Does he- well, does Jared play sixes though?

Neil Barrett (18:04.372)
I mean, in a-

Brandon Hooten (18:04.702)
I'm not doubting his ability. I'm just saying I don't know if he is actually going to I mean, I guess same for Jack too. I mean you could give him a short stick I guess but

Neil Barrett (18:10.974)
yeah i mean that's true with the polls you never yeah

Didn't the canons put a shorty on like apple or something?

Brandon Hooten (18:24.49)
Yeah, someone did it might have been apple. So it's i'm not saying it can't i'm just curious to see like maybe they're just like hey I don't really want to do it, you know But yeah, they're gonna be missing everybody

Neil Barrett (18:29.194)
Right. Who will? Yeah.

Neil Barrett (18:36.194)
Yeah. Yeah. So and then of course, you know, Atlas will miss Jeff T and you know, Brandon O'Neill will be missing for everyone's kind of missing someone. But the chaos I think are missing pretty much every good player, good player that you can think of from their roster. So that out of the way, who's your pick?

Brandon Hooten (19:00.81)
I'm gonna take New York because I think they're getting impacted the least by guys missing and the guys that they will still have left are All-stars and an MVP so You know, I think I Think the outlaws having like Mcnaney and some of those guys will be helpful on the back end But like they're missing Brennan. They're missing Pat. They're missing Dalton Young You know, California is gonna be missing Chris Cav

Neil Barrett (19:12.578)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Hooten (19:30.676)
which is even just by himself as a tough loss. And then obviously Carolina's missing a ton. So I just think it makes the most sense, but maybe someone comes in and upsets, way too early pick, New York Atlas.

Neil Barrett (19:44.535)
Yeah, no, I, I agree with you on the Atlas. I think not only do you have kind of maybe the least amount of, of, it's hard to say that when like Jeff T is one of the guys that's missing, but they have so many guys that, that played then and will, will still play that are very high level guys. but they also have, I was kind of between them and the, and the redwoods.

They also have a bunch of guys who have played sixes who have played in the championship series for at least a year, if not two or three or whatever. So I think they have a lot of guys that kind of know what to expect and how to play this game really well. I do think the woods will be highly competitive because I think they're going to have Dylan Malloy and Ryder Garnsey. Maybe they get Brendan Nick turn out there.

Brandon Hooten (20:41.065)
Romar Dennis.

Neil Barrett (20:42.814)
Right. I'll have Romar. I don't know who else. Maybe they'll get Sam Hanley out there. I don't know if that helps them or not, but. You know, I. Listen, maybe maybe given Hanley that extra what foot is a two feet, one foot. Well.

Brandon Hooten (20:52.391)
Hey, couple two point shooters? Worth a shot.

Brandon Hooten (21:02.571)
I thought it was two yards, isn't it 13 yards?

Neil Barrett (21:05.876)
Yards. did. I did say feet. I meant yards. yes, but yes, 13 yards instead of the normal 15. maybe that, maybe that helps him. I, you know, I think, I think the thing that's probably going to hurt them the most is just goalie play. you know, Liam Intiman ain't, ain't going to go play NLL. So he'll be there. Do we've

Do we really think that Chase Erlen is gonna be the guy leading them to a championship in February? Like, how do...

Neil Barrett (21:47.939)
I don't know. So, but yeah, I'm going, I'm going Atlas with you with, with maybe the Redwoods kind of being that, that next guy, next guy, next team. Yeah. Who do you have for golden stick winner?

Brandon Hooten (22:01.918)
There we go.

Brandon Hooten (22:09.758)
Gotta be either Shelly or Xander. but Xander has a broken leg. I don't know how long that takes to come back from. Man, I didn't even consider that.

Neil Barrett (22:13.346)
Yeah, and imagine Xander's probably not going to be playing.

Brandon Hooten (22:18.814)
My pick still stands, I'm not changing it, but I didn't even think about that. So I guess I have to go Shelly by that logic.

Neil Barrett (22:27.104)
I mean, Shelley's. Shelley's. A great pick like, you know, I don't think anyone's going to get mad at you for suggesting the current PLL MVP is going to be the MVP of the championship series. And then I you never know who's going to get signed. Last year was Ronan Jacoby, who kind of broke out of nowhere and played. I shouldn't say broke out of nowhere. He had a pretty good.

Brandon Hooten (22:34.527)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (22:43.646)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (22:56.972)
Championship Series the previous year with Utah. So it wasn't completely out of nowhere, but he was he was eighth in championship points this year and no one above him is playing this coming year. They were all on teams that did not make the championship series this year. So, you know, seeing him make a jump could could happen. But my

My pick is Brian Kostabile. He usually, yeah, yeah, I think it is, I think it is more of a sneaky pick. In fact, that's why I looked this up to see where he was. He's actually way farther down the list than I thought he was last year. But I don't even actually see him on this list, which is really weird. Did he not?

Brandon Hooten (23:28.084)
That was going to be my sneaky pick.

Neil Barrett (23:54.284)
Did he not play last year? Am I stupid?

Brandon Hooten (23:58.507)
I have no idea. Let me...

Neil Barrett (24:01.57)
I don't either, I f-

It's only showing 38. Wait. Yeah, it's only showing 38. Now it says 41. No, there he is. He's okay. What is happening? No. Yes. Yeah, I don't know what I was just looking at.

Brandon Hooten (24:16.426)
Yeah, no, he played. He played. He had two really good games and then followed it up by a couple not so good ones.

Neil Barrett (24:25.35)
you know what I was looking at? I was looking at last year's championship series. That's why. So ignore everything I said about Ronan Jacoby. That was true of 2024's championship series. The same logic, though, applies to Brian Costabile. He was third in points at this past championship series, and the only two people that outscored him were Asher Nolting and Matt Campbell, neither of which will be here. So Brian Costabile is my

My MVP pick, although, although Connor Schellenberger, I also really wanted to pick Myles Jones. He was my pick last year. I really liked him and he started off so strong.

Brandon Hooten (25:04.874)
Hmm. That's a good one too.

I've noticed you pick Miles Jones for a lot of things.

Neil Barrett (25:12.386)
What else did I pick Miles Jones for?

Brandon Hooten (25:14.43)
You didn't officially pick him, but you talked about how you wanted to pick him for PLL MVP before the season started this year.

Neil Barrett (25:22.754)
Yeah, well, and he started fairly well. What do you have this year? He had. He had.

geez, what do have five points in three games? So not amazing, although his last game, his last game was zero points. That was he only had five touches in that last game, though. That's I'm not really faulting a zero point game against him when he only had five touches and then they sat him. So he really had five points in two games started very well. And then they just dropped him. So, you know.

Brandon Hooten (25:44.607)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (26:02.83)
I felt pretty good that second week. was like, you know, it's a long shot. I don't think he's necessarily going to win it. But but I was like, I feel pretty good about it. And they just dropped him. He'd never played and cool. Great. So let's move on to the regular season. I'm going to start at a different spot. We didn't do this on WL because there's only four teams. Give me your top four teams at the end of the season, the teams that will play in the

2027 championship series.

Brandon Hooten (26:38.186)
All right, we're going Denver. There's no particular order Denver, New York, Philly.

Brandon Hooten (26:52.588)
that last one is tough.

Neil Barrett (26:53.122)
Brandon Hooten (26:57.022)
I don't know why I'm hesitating. There's no stakes to this. I'm to change this. I'm just, questioning, I'm thinking, I'm picking between Boston and Utah. I'm trying to think about Utah's roster next year and what it could actually look like. Because if, Joey goes there.

How does he perform? he carry the team? Do they follow through with my my hypothetical of trading for Zed? Does that work out? Do they run it back with Connor and all them? You know, does Joey get there and then traded to the Redwoods for Chris Cav and you know, there's a lot

Neil Barrett (27:35.426)
This right here is exactly why I wanted to do this because I think it's funny to think about all the different ways that it can go between now and then

Brandon Hooten (27:43.484)
Yeah. Like, okay, I think I'm gonna go Boston. Just for now. Because I think those four teams have the most rock solid rosters. I say rock solid. Maybe Boston, we'll see. But I think generally you look at the rosters and you say, okay, they have stars that'll be there. I think California will still be very competitive though, and make a push for that fourth spot. I need to see more from Carolina and Maryland.

though for at this point, you

Neil Barrett (28:16.354)
So here's my four New York Denver. think I think what you've said, you know, they have they have those guys. They should be there next year. Then I'm taking California because I just think that Joe Spelina is going to make moves. He is going to be, you know, all over all over trying to make this team even better.

than they were this year. I think he made a lot of great moves this year and looking forward to next year. think now you can kind of look and see, okay, we need a little bit. think coming into the season, I'm not sure that, I mean, they kind of needed a little bit of everything. And I think now you can kind of look at it and see like, hey, can we get a little bit better in goalie? Can we get a little bit better at midfield? Can we do, there's just a few things that they need to do. Can we maybe add,

either either get you a Joey Spelina. Can you can you make a move to get that caliber player or can we get some depth at attack to support what we already have right there? And I so I think I I don't want to bet against Joe Spelina making those moves. And then the fourth one, I have the Maryland Whip Snakes.

that face, here's why I think, I think Jim's stagnated is the best coach in the PLL. And I think that roster is very good. If, we let the young guns do their thing. And if you think about it, they were, they had to win what one game.

and they'd have been in it this year.

Neil Barrett (30:16.161)
So.

Brandon Hooten (30:16.425)
I don't know if they own the diebreaker or not over Carolina or California I guess for that matter too

Neil Barrett (30:26.306)
I thought they were in,

Wrong one. Yeah, they were.

Brandon Hooten (30:31.977)
because they were four and six.

Neil Barrett (30:34.85)
Oh, so, okay. I thought they beat. Well, no, they beat the brakes off of Carolina. Remember that was the game that that Carolina lost by like 14. I don't know. I don't know if they played again. If it was one and one or if they were if they won, I also. Score differential is the first tiebreaker, isn't it? So they would have they would have won it. If they had won one more game, differential was the number one.

Brandon Hooten (30:43.419)
Yeah, yeah. So then do they own the tiebreaker over them on that?

Brandon Hooten (30:51.902)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (31:01.639)
yeah yeah yeah well yeah yeah yeah so one more game and they yeah you're right and that would have been third

Neil Barrett (31:08.16)
And they, and they would have been in, yeah. You're right. Cause they, their score differential was better than, than California's too. You're right.

Brandon Hooten (31:15.987)
Yeah, I didn't think about that way.

Neil Barrett (31:19.712)
Yeah, though, though I didn't think about Utah because they were so far down, I didn't even think about them getting back up. But you're right about Utah. They could be completely different next year. They also could they also could have more or less the same roster and just be better than they were. The cannons at this at this moment on

Brandon Hooten (31:42.867)
Yeah, yeah.

Neil Barrett (31:49.219)
September 23rd, 2025, the canis don't move me. That defense is too old. It's too slow. It's not good enough for them to be in that, that top four. The water dogs to me are kind of like the archers in that they, they maybe sorta started to figure some things out. And if they can, if they can kind of keep that going, if they can kind of keep that going, they could win the whole thing next year. Uh, but they also,

could be exactly what they were this year, you know, way down the bottom of the barrel, where things just kind of inexplicably aren't working similar to the Utah archers this year. So those are, those are the four I'm going and why I'm going with them. Again, we're so far out. I don't think any, I don't think you could be mad at anyone for picking anyone except for, as you mentioned, maybe the Carolina chaos. You just kind of, they,

Brandon Hooten (32:47.443)
For now, for now.

Neil Barrett (32:48.894)
Right. Right. We'll see what happens in the draft. We'll see what happens in free agency, stuff like that could could completely.

Brandon Hooten (32:53.993)
Again, again, think they'll be way better than second in a row. I think they'll be better than we're expecting them to be. Especially having Hiltz there for a full year. I would assume Jackson Eichers coming back for another year.

Neil Barrett (33:07.202)
Yeah, that was that was the that was the word on him was that they draft or they not drafted him. They signed him because he was going to have at least two years. We'll see.

Brandon Hooten (33:19.111)
Yeah. And we'll see who else they, they, they draft or sign. So.

Neil Barrett (33:22.42)
My thing with the chaos is less about whether or not they can be what they were this year. You know, that kind of level. It's more about will other people catch up? Will other people play? They're not going to be a surprise next year. So. That's kind of my my thought there. Let's move over to the regular season. Well, I guess we I guess top four is a regular season, but let's.

Brandon Hooten (33:38.877)
Yeah, true.

Neil Barrett (33:51.39)
Let's go with your MVP pick for next season.

Brandon Hooten (33:57.353)
Do I do I double down second year in a row?

Brandon Hooten (34:04.452)
I Brennan was real good, but I think they figured out that even with as many points as he had...

Neil Barrett (34:06.166)
Brennan was real good.

Brandon Hooten (34:13.926)
I think that's his sort of max for what his role currently is. So I don't know that he's gonna win it.

man this is so difficult especially because like I argued this year for goalies to win it and in large part they got no respect in my opinion from everybody so part of me is like do I even throw a goalie out there because clearly it's a point scoring award I say that and then people are gonna say well three of the six seasons have been goalies or whatever they said last time I said this on Twitter so

Neil Barrett (34:28.404)
It's so hard.

Neil Barrett (34:47.5)
Where are you gonna go, Liam?

Brandon Hooten (34:58.984)
I don't want to be a homer either, that's the other problem.

Neil Barrett (35:01.986)
You can be a homer, who cares?

Brandon Hooten (35:03.748)
I could but I also don't want to deal with that on Twitter either. I'll go with one of the guys that I argued should have been a finalist. Brad Dobson.

Neil Barrett (35:09.11)
Why is it home?

Brandon Hooten (35:19.398)
because I think he is still a top goalie in the league. I mean, you can make the argument that four of them really are, you know, the best in the world at some point or another. And I think honestly, he's gonna have to carry that team if they run it back and are still not themselves injured, even if they get a guy like Joey and they have to rebuild to an extent, like he's gonna have to be the backbone. So yeah, I'll take Dobson right now.

Neil Barrett (35:19.788)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (35:48.407)
That's I like that pick. I like that pick. It's funny because like you said, I didn't even I didn't even think about a goalie because it's never a goalie, which I know it. I know it was blaze one year, but you know, it's never a goal.

Brandon Hooten (36:01.222)
Yeah, well when I called it a point scoring award, I got told something along the lines of, well, Trevor won one, Blaze won one, and, someone, was, so I was like, okay, but that doesn't make it like not a point scoring discussion. Like every time you talk about MVP, people talk about points. So that's where I feel like it's going to go into an attack.

Neil Barrett (36:10.412)
That's it.

Neil Barrett (36:19.106)
What's your

Also blaze one it in the bubble. No, Zed won it in the bubble. So, you know, I don't, it's, it's an offensive award. I I think blaze and Trevor had to not just be the best at their position, not just, you know, better than all the rest. They had to be like so much better than

Brandon Hooten (36:27.133)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (36:51.17)
offensive players have to be, you know, and even then it was, it was a discussion. Should it have been Trevor? Should it have been blaze? Should it have been X or Y or Z or, whatever. So, you know, uh, that being said, my, answer is, a little bit of a Homer answer. Um, although

Although it's not because I'm a homer and that is Michael Sowers. I think kind of like you said for Brett Dobson, I think he's going to have to be.

He's going to have to be very good. know, I know now that I've said it though, I'm like, yeah, but CJ is going to come in and take some of his, take some of his touches, take some of his points. and, and to be fair, that's probably necessary to an, to an extent. even though this, it feels like it might be one of those, one of those Connor Schellenberger, Jeff T kind of things where

where maybe Michael Sowers is still really the MVP. He's still the one that like that, that offense goes off of and he kind of makes everything work. And if he's down, the whole offense is going to be a little bit down. But that CJ puts up the points and stuff that's going to get him that attention. So maybe they ended up splitting. Maybe Michael Sowers is actually a really terrible pick now that I've thought about it. I completely forgot about the fact that they were going to have

CJ back this year. so maybe maybe that's not the best call, you know, maybe maybe it's gonna be Liam Intiman. I don't know if I don't know if that's who you were thinking of but I can also go with Asher Nolting. That was that was my pick for MVP this year. And I think he he had a very good season not necessarily up to his standards. I mean, he's

Neil Barrett (38:56.03)
not up to his standards and he was still sixth in the league in points. So, you know, I don't think Asher Nolten is ever again. Yes, I do.

Brandon Hooten (39:01.871)
I think he just has to start stronger. If he started the season a little stronger, think he has a legit chance.

Neil Barrett (39:08.716)
Yeah, if he starts a little bit stronger at the beginning of the season and his team ends up in a better position, you know, we talked about Brett Dobson was severely discounted from a lot of the postseason awards because of where his team not making the playoffs and stuff. yeah, I think I think both of those things are true. So I love the bread Dobson answer.

Brandon Hooten (39:31.845)
It's also just funny saying that when he started with three points, he had the one point and then back to three points. Like he only had two games with less than three points. But when you look at the rest of like the MVP finalists, it's like, wow, like they were having four a game. But I think he'll bounce back pretty nicely.

Neil Barrett (39:51.819)
Well, didn't. Then Sowers have to. Yes, ours had two less than three point games, too. So, yeah, it's like.

Brandon Hooten (39:58.15)
Yeah. Yeah. But he had enough bigger games that it still ended up with over 40 is what I'm getting at. Like he, I think most seasons you could argue Asher should be a finalist, but then it's like you have these other guys that are just putting up astronomical numbers that beat him out. But I think, like I said, and it pairs, it couples up with, think next year's Boston will be better as well. So I think that will benefit Asher too.

Neil Barrett (40:02.786)
That's true. That's true. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (40:23.52)
Yeah. Cause like I said in, in mine, when we were talking about the top four, it was, I discounted Boston because of their defense, but they got that number two pick. And if they pick up Bobby Van Buren, like I think most of us expect them to, they could be significantly better on the defensive end of the ball. So, let's, let's take this, this last one and, and say who, who is going to be your champion right here today.

Brandon Hooten (40:35.292)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (40:53.191)
team I just lost.

Neil Barrett (41:00.054)
That's it? That's all you got?

Brandon Hooten (41:02.469)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (41:03.436)
The end. Fair enough. All right. Fine. My PLL champion is also the Denver Outlaws with one big giant caveat. One huge, huge caveat.

The defense either has to stay together, neither Mike Manley or Jesse Bernhardt retire. Jesse or Jake? Jesse. Jesse. Neither one of them either, either, either, either, neither retires or.

Brandon Hooten (41:29.243)
Jesse.

Neil Barrett (41:41.175)
they move, make some kind of move that gets them not necessarily Bobby Van Buren, but someone they make some moves that, that brings some really good defenders in the door. think, I think they're going to need a, at least as good of a defense as they had this year. And if two of those guys go out and they just kind of replace them with, you know, a hodgepodge or whatever, trying to get through,

then I don't have them as a champion. But if they can get what they had this year or better, then yeah, I think they're the champion. I think they have all the pieces.

Brandon Hooten (42:18.639)
Yeah, I still think, well, I wouldn't say all. I still think one of them retires. One of Jesse or Manley. And then I think, I mean, Archive Brian said this is the year to draft one, if you need a poll. So I would anticipate they draft one or two of them. Maybe look at the free agent market. I don't know who's up on their deals. I do agree though, but I think one of them stays and plays another year.

The other concern, the only other concern is face-off. It's nothing against Luke Wehrman because he does have games where you're watching and you're like, he's really good. He's beating the top of the top of the league guys. But then he has games like the championship where you're like, you're lost. So I think having some type of competition at least in camp should theoretically help him.

Neil Barrett (42:51.746)
Space out.

Brandon Hooten (43:16.387)
help them be a contender again, but if they don't shore up the defense or face off, then I think there's potentially some trouble.

Neil Barrett (43:25.27)
I like it. I like it. And I agree. I don't. Those are the two spots I wasn't. I know some people were really down on the Denver defense. I wasn't really that down. I thought they were pretty good as evidenced by making the championship. I don't think you make the championship with a bad defense and people wanted to act like the outlaws defense was bad. And I just didn't think it was that bad. But

But moving forward, I think they're going to need some help. And then the other spot that you look at, like you said, is, face-off where they, they clearly need some help. That championship game was not good enough. I don't know that they went, you know, if it's closer to 50%, I don't know that they win, but you, you gotta think they have a very good shot if, they can get, know, whatever it was that would have put them, it was at least probably six or seven more present possessions.

Brandon Hooten (44:23.835)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (44:25.17)
So you got to think they have a very, very good shot of of winning that game with a handful more possessions. So, you know, I got I got two questions. I didn't prep you on one I literally just thought of and one I just forgot. I just forgot to to prep you. So we're going to ask him anyway. The first one, how many points will top the table? We were talking about Asher not hitting 40.

This year, Connor Schellenberger led in points with 46 last year. Obviously it was a Jeff Tete at 64. You know, usually it's somewhere just slightly over 40 or so points. So, so how many points will top the table?

Brandon Hooten (45:15.289)
I'm going 45.

Neil Barrett (45:17.698)
45. Okay. Okay.

Brandon Hooten (45:19.949)
That's four and a half points a game on average. Gives you a little bit of wiggle room to have a big game and a down game.

and it's in between Sours and Shelley this year. Which I think is probably a pretty good range.

Neil Barrett (45:36.163)
OK, so I'm going to say we're we're moving upwards, ignoring ignoring Jeff Teets. Astronomical season last year, just anomalous season that will take a very long time. I don't know that I don't think that it's always going to to be a very a decent jump every single year.

Brandon Hooten (45:50.043)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (46:06.338)
But I think 48 is the number next year. I'm, I'm tempted to just say 47. That's just one goal better, but I, or one point better, but I'm going to say 47 next year. Similar to you. It's not an astronomical thing to average kind of 4.7 points a game. It's high. Don't get me wrong. Uh, but Connor Sullenberger was already at, at, 4.6 this year. I think a few guys, Michael Sowers could have

Michael Sowers could have blown that out of the water until he kind of slowed down a little bit. Asher Nolting kind of ramped up towards that number. So, you know, I don't think it's too much. It's going to be obviously all about that consistency. But yeah, I'm going to say I'm going to say 48. And then my my last question on our way to early 2026 predictions is

Brandon Hooten (46:38.468)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (47:03.404)
Who will be the biggest mover? And I'm actually going to ask. I'm actually going to split this into two questions. One. Who will be the biggest mover in the table? So. The biggest fall, the biggest rise, whatever, however you want to go. and then the second half is who will be. I guess it's maybe maybe more of a. Who will be the biggest, like the busiest in free agency? Do you think?

Brandon Hooten (47:33.67)
man.

Brandon Hooten (47:42.918)
trying to pull up the full list so I don't have to only talk about these six guys that I'm seeing here that I cannot seem to figure out their website. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Neil Barrett (47:43.104)
you wish I had prepped you

Neil Barrett (47:56.803)
Sorry, this is not individual players. I meant this is teams. Yes, standings, sorry.

Brandon Hooten (48:00.934)
Oh you meant standings. Oh, okay I thought we still talking about the points.

Neil Barrett (48:07.01)
No, that's my bad. I could have organized it a little better if I had.

Brandon Hooten (48:11.587)
I think...

Brandon Hooten (48:15.93)
I think Utah moves the most. I they were last and I just said, think they're going to be top four. No, I didn't. I argued they were going to be better though. So by that logic, they have to move up technically two spots to fifth. because like, think, I think New York and Denver are probably at the top still. California is probably still right there. Yeah. Cause I think everybody else is going to move down or up one.

Neil Barrett (48:25.536)
Yes.

Brandon Hooten (48:45.734)
Or I guess Philly would move up to two as well. So Philly or Utah.

Neil Barrett (48:49.642)
Remember it could be, it could be a slide too.

Brandon Hooten (48:52.654)
Yeah, but even that slide's only gonna be one or two spots.

I mean, unless Maryland really falls down to down three, which I could see, I'll take them for now.

Neil Barrett (48:57.826)
Ciao!

Neil Barrett (49:06.332)
or or one spot above them, the Carolina chaos could, I, I think the Carolina chaos could be better than, than we expect. Kind of, kind of what we thought coming into this, they can be better than we expect and still be the last place team. Again, this is well before they've made any off season moves before they've drafted anyone. I still, I know they like to tout that draft class from last year.

Still not impressed with with the draft class. I know they made a couple of pretty solid signings. Jackson Eicher, obviously the kind of top of that list. A couple of their trades worked out pretty well, but their draft was not good. And I don't see. They can put me in another video, that's fine. I'm not scared. I'm not scared. I don't want to smoke from Blaze.

Brandon Hooten (49:52.874)
You better be careful. You better be careful. Last time you said this, you ended up in a video.

Neil Barrett (50:05.846)
But I'll take the Carolina chaos, that's fine.

Brandon Hooten (50:08.037)
He said that guys, not me.

Neil Barrett (50:11.586)
That's right. You can you can direct it to I am Neil Baron. That's totally fine. That's totally fine. But but yeah, I think I think they could be better than even coming into this next season. We expect them and still be considered last place, you know.

Brandon Hooten (50:15.725)
Yeah, yeah.

Neil Barrett (50:35.116)
They could, they could be very good and still have the archers shoot up. The water dogs shoot up. The cannons shoot up. Like everyone below them, you look at and think they are in a better position than the Carolina chaos are. And that's not necessarily a shot at the Carolina chaos. It's more about these, these teams were, mean, the Carolina chaos, I think are doing very well. When you think about

who they've lost in in the space of two. I'm so used to the soccer language. I keep want to say in the space of two transfer windows like from the end of the twenty three season to the start of the twenty five season. So so the two periods before and after the twenty twenty four season they lost their entire offense.

Every single player who was a midfielder or attackman for them left.

That's that's crazy. And then and then they drafted Will Bowen and everybody thought like, OK, cool. Now we've got we've got Jack Rowlett, Jerry Newman and Will Bowen is going to be kind of the core of this defense. And then Will Bowen retired and then Zach Gettys left. And, you know, I think that Justin Anasio was a was a an upgrade from Nick Rowlett, but Nick Rowlett left like they just had so much turnover.

I think it's fair to say they exceeded expectations and they are still in a worse position than pretty much every other team in the league. Even though they finished.

Brandon Hooten (52:21.401)
So your pick is Carolina.

Neil Barrett (52:24.866)
I mean...

Yeah, who else you gonna pick? Again, on November or November on September 23rd, looking at these rosters, knowing who's coming back next year or who's looking like they're coming back next year.

What what what are you putting your faith in this Carolina chaos team for like what do you write?

Brandon Hooten (52:50.829)
It has nothing to do with the chaos. It has to do with I don't know that I trust Maryland. They have some really good pieces, but like there's not, there wasn't one time this year that I looked at them and was like, no, they're going to win.

Neil Barrett (52:57.43)
Okay, but even-

Neil Barrett (53:04.45)
Okay, but two things. First, even if even if we accepted that on face value and we said they're better than Marilyn. Okay, so they'll be seventh. Like, you know, I don't

Brandon Hooten (53:20.909)
which would be, that would be the same slide as Maryland going to eighth.

Neil Barrett (53:25.643)
Right.

Brandon Hooten (53:27.362)
and Utah bumping the fifth.

Neil Barrett (53:30.422)
Well yeah, if Utah bumps to fifth.

Brandon Hooten (53:33.785)
when Utah bumps to fifth.

Neil Barrett (53:35.46)
But, I still think that the Whipsnakes are in a way better position. Their defense is was statistically, even though I think their statistics are slightly inflated, statistically the best defense in the league. I think they finally got Emmett Carroll. I think they finally have their goalie for at least the foreseeable future.

the, I think they have a ton of pieces on their offense. They still have Joe Nardella taking face-offs. Like they're in a significantly better position, I think than the Carolina chaos are. And again, they can put me in another video next year when they, if they're satisfied.

Brandon Hooten (54:22.051)
I mean, they were in a better position this year too.

Neil Barrett (54:27.383)
Sure. Sure. I mean, that's

Brandon Hooten (54:29.613)
I just need them to prove it to me. It's just my thing. Because Carolina showed that they can at least fight back. with Hilts in there now, I just think they looked way better.

Neil Barrett (54:32.963)
Right.

Brandon Hooten (54:44.707)
This could change if they draft and I'm like, wow, they didn't add anybody and Maryland did. I'd be happy to move them. But even so, none of this matters because I still think Utah is going to go up three spots.

Neil Barrett (55:00.013)
Sure, but we're talking biggest move.

Brandon Hooten (55:03.016)
Yeah, that's the biggest move.

Neil Barrett (55:05.973)
Only, only if they're above Maryland.

Brandon Hooten (55:10.669)
Yeah, but that means Marilyn can drop down one. Or two.

Neil Barrett (55:17.409)
Right, but I'm saying then if the chaos drop four, then that's the biggest move.

Brandon Hooten (55:21.985)
What if the chaos I don't think the chaos are dropping for it's what i'm saying

Neil Barrett (55:28.449)
All I'm saying is. Look at look at this attack, Jackson, Eicher, Owen Hiltz, Adam Sherrill and Beatty's Josh Zawada. The Whip Snakes have TJ Malone, Aiden Carroll, Rob Pinnell. Matt Rambo, all right, fine. But. In midfield, they have Matt Brandow, who moved down and I think was very good. Then they still have Brad Smith, Adam Poitra, Levi Anderson.

Ryan Oggevin, which I didn't even realize was on this roster. You know, like Ryan Conrad, who was injured all this year. The chaos midfield is Ross Scott, Shane Knobloch, JJ Silstrop, Sergio Perkovich, who was like one of their better players. Garrett Degnong, Cross Ferara, Cross Ferara had five points this year. Eric Dobson, Cole Williams, Chris Aslanyan, Chris, I don't even think Chris Aslanyan had nine touches.

Brandon Hooten (56:26.5)
And somehow that team still finished fourth. Ahead of the Maryland Whipsnakes by 11 goals.

Neil Barrett (56:26.573)
Colons had everything to play.

Neil Barrett (56:35.492)
No, not by 11 goals. I won't get.

Brandon Hooten (56:38.968)
I'm sorry, I was reading California to Carolina, my apologies. Either way, they still did finish ahead of them fourth. They won more games with that roster, and they're going to add to it in the offseason. And that entire attack line, aside from Jax and Iker, is going to play box, which will only help them.

Neil Barrett (56:42.285)
Yes, yes. I was gonna say they were.

Neil Barrett (56:52.395)
Listen.

Neil Barrett (57:00.355)
Listen,

Brandon Hooten (57:03.884)
I know you're a Carolina Homer, you don't want to admit that's your team.

Neil Barrett (57:07.907)
my god!

Brandon Hooten (57:08.9)
Alright. It's okay. You can be positive about Carolina. It's alright.

Neil Barrett (57:16.707)
No, no, there's there's literally nothing about them that I'm a Homer about. I like I like a couple of the guys like Blaze Blaze. I like you. You're great. Don't come from me. Same. Brett Dobs or Jesus, I can't even say it. Blaze Reardon is the best goalie in the league.

Brandon Hooten (57:25.411)
Hahaha

Brandon Hooten (57:32.644)
There we go, there we go.

Neil Barrett (57:46.893)
But next year, next year when they're last place, I'm playing this clip. And next year, when they're fifth place, we're playing this clip.

Brandon Hooten (57:47.332)
Very nice, very nice.

Brandon Hooten (57:55.941)
Absolutely, Except it's gonna have to be when they're like six or something because Utah is gonna be fifth.

Brandon Hooten (58:05.154)
I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm real high on Utah on September 23rd 2025 for the 2026 season. Play that clip next year when they're, you know, if they're seventh or eighth, I'm like, nope, I said September 20th.

Neil Barrett (58:10.563)
2025.

Neil Barrett (58:21.539)
I'm just posting that one. That's going to be the only clip from this episode that gets aired is I'm real high on the Utah archers for the 2026 season. That's it. That's it.

Brandon Hooten (58:31.148)
Hahaha

I to be fair I am, but that's also assuming that like all these moves happen that I think are gonna happen that I mean probably won't but it's fun to think about, you know.

Neil Barrett (58:39.491)
It's true.

Hey, what are you gonna do when the archers draft freaking Eric Spanos instead of Joey Spelina? Like, you know, some people have

Brandon Hooten (58:50.436)
Personally, I think that's a fantastic move. I think we should write more articles about that.

Let's make graphics, let's jersey swaps already.

Neil Barrett (59:00.107)
Hmm. Yep. Yep. Good plan. Good plan.

Brandon Hooten (59:05.538)
I don't even know what the other question was.

Neil Barrett (59:05.699)
That just reminded me of, was who's who's going to make something about making the biggest moves. Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (59:16.242)
and free agency. The Utah Archers. Done deal.

Neil Barrett (59:23.299)
That doesn't include drafts.

Brandon Hooten (59:25.912)
These are Archers.

Neil Barrett (59:27.223)
What you think they gonna do? I'm just interested now.

Brandon Hooten (59:28.932)
I think it's less about what they're going to do. I think it's more about who they're going to lose.

Brandon Hooten (59:37.196)
I'm drinking the Kool-Aid real hard on them losing some guys.

Neil Barrett (59:43.415)
We know some of the guys there rumored to be losing.

Brandon Hooten (59:46.304)
Yeah, and maybe they don't. you know, maybe they, it's all like they'll come back and whatever. I just think.

I mean, the fall from grace from them was just pretty big. And I think when you have an opportunity to go young with a guy like Joey, or even if you swap him for a Chris Cav or whatever.

I you go that route. And I look at some of these other teams, like I thought Chaos was gonna, you know, I'll do a little bit more last year and they, I mean, kinda didn't, you know. Denver's keeping their same core. Atlas is keeping their same core. Carolina, barring a trade for Joey Spallina in my mind. Keeping their guys. Maryland, like you said, keeping theirs. Philly's keeping theirs. Boston's keeping theirs.

Neil Barrett (01:00:10.179)
See you later.

Brandon Hooten (01:00:36.289)
I think most of the moves are going come in the draft from pretty much every team.

Neil Barrett (01:00:41.507)
I feel like the biggest mover is going to be the woods because I'm not personally one of the people that thinks that Joe Spelina is going to make a move to draft Joey. I think. I think what it would take to make that move would be irresponsible.

Brandon Hooten (01:01:06.571)
I don't necessarily disagree, but I could see it occurring. Still.

Neil Barrett (01:01:14.135)
I just don't I think I think if you're a GM and you make that move because it's your son you should be fired immediately like it's just because I if if I have if I'm the Utah archers and I have the number one pick and you come to me and I know you want Joey Spelina I have all the power you're giving me you're giving me a lot to get Joe Spelina Joey Spelina like it it's not

Brandon Hooten (01:01:23.485)
That's a fair take. That's a fair take.

Neil Barrett (01:01:42.454)
It's not just going to be like Chris Cavanaugh. It's going to be like Chris Cavanaugh on the number one pick or, you know, a first round pick the next year or something. Like it's not just going to be some, some simple move. And I think, I think you're going to have to give up way more than, than you want to, or, or should.

Brandon Hooten (01:02:01.887)
Yeah, but if you're the archers, do you worry about Joey leaving the first chance he gets then to go team up with his dad in the future? So then on that front, would it make more sense to accept a trade where you're getting something like a Chris Kavanagh first?

Neil Barrett (01:02:16.149)
No, cause what's gonna, what's gonna say that Chris Kavanaugh doesn't bolt at the first opportunity he gets who who's to say Joe Spelina still a GM in three years, you know, after his rookie deal, like I think, I think y'all can disagree. I think we're playing for, we're, we're looking at this right now and I'll worry about his free agency within three, four, whatever the rookie year deal is.

we'll worry about that in three or four years, whatever. Like I'm going to go get the guy that's going to win me a champion. Like in my mind and admittedly there's some things up in the air with some of the other players that could, could alter this, but in my mind, a Joey Spelina led archers team could, could potentially be a, a win the next three championships. You know, we're, talking about a team that just won back to back and now you're going to add Sam King and

Joey Spelina and back to back years plus whoever else they draft as well. Like why, why would I not think if I'm the archers, why would I not think that we could win the next three if we played our cards right? Am I willing to give up those three championships just because I think Joey Spelina might leave after his rookie deals up? I'm not.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:42.339)
Sure, but we're talking about potentially trading for a guy that just had 37 points In his rookie season and you'd probably be getting a first on top of it

Neil Barrett (01:03:47.148)
Sure.

Neil Barrett (01:03:52.1)
sure. But you also won. People act like this is a this is just like a done deal trade. Like if. No, I I understand. But I have heard this is the trade scenario that like everyone's just running with. If I'm the if I'm the Redwoods, why would I why would I want to give up Chris Kavanaugh for that? You know, is is the trade.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:58.4)
No, no, no, I'm not trying to say that for the record. We're using this as an example, but...

Neil Barrett (01:04:19.959)
that worth it? Like you said, Chris Cavanaugh just had 37 points. He just, he just led your team nearly to the championship.

Is is getting rid of him to bring in Joey Spelina just because his dad's the GM. Going to put you in a better position to win. I don't I don't think so. Again, you can tell me I'm wrong.

Brandon Hooten (01:04:44.003)
I still think Utah's trading for Zed.

That's gonna be my far and away, if there's gonna be a trade with a veteran, like a big time name, I think that'll be it. From Utah's perspective.

Neil Barrett (01:05:02.679)
What's, what's that trade look like in your eyes? Not necessarily the specific pieces, although I mean, you probably have to kind of have some idea of specific pieces in order to kind of make it understandable, but like not, I'm not suggesting that you think this is the trade, but like in your mind, how does a trade like that?

Brandon Hooten (01:05:21.677)
Probably just a draft pick, if I'm being honest. Just because I think there's, you know, you're coming off that injury is a gamble for both him as a player and the team. And I just, like I'm trying to think like who else, like Philly has a crowded room right now. So they don't have, like it's not as simple as being like, well, we'll ship you a player back because they literally don't have room. That was their problem this whole, you know, half the season.

Neil Barrett (01:05:24.749)
You think just a draft pick?

Brandon Hooten (01:05:51.425)
So I think from that perspective it's like, hey, this guy's probably not playing for us, he's coming off an injury, you guys are clearly kind of needing some pieces. I don't think he's worth like a first necessarily, but like, who's to say they don't say, hey, the second round pick third round pick could be spent on this.

Neil Barrett (01:06:13.891)
Yeah, you bring up a good point about the injury and not really knowing where he is in terms of

Brandon Hooten (01:06:21.292)
Cause I mean we've seen guys come back from that injury and be incredible in all sports. We've also seen guys that have an injury like that and come back and are just not themselves. And then at least if it doesn't work out, you say, hey, it was one pick one year. You know, whereas if you send a player, it's like,

Neil Barrett (01:06:40.801)
Yeah. And, and to your point trades in the PLL have yet to really work the way that they work in other leagues and in like big four leagues where, know, you got a former MVP, you're going to give, you're going to give up something to get that, that, has not really been the case in the PLL. Historically, when you look at it, trade value is not as high as what we would tend to expect.

for things. So in that sense, the more you talked about it, the more I'm like, no, I, okay, I can see that I can see a second or a third for, for said coming off an injury. I do think, like you said, we've seen guys come back and not be good. And we've seen guys come back and be great. I would tend to lean more towards him being more of what he had been just because I think his game style kind of reflects that. Like, you know, he, he's not Derek Rose. He wasn't

Brandon Hooten (01:07:36.545)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:07:39.478)
a crazy explosive guy. wasn't, you know, anything too, too crazy there. I think he could, you know, make that work pretty, pretty well. I'm not, I'm not super worried about him, but you are right. It is something we have to, we have to see. have to, we have to look at. So, that's a lot.

Brandon Hooten (01:08:03.2)
Yeah, but but this is also all just again assuming that Utah loses guys and then where do those guys go sign? so from that perspective like Maybe Carolina's buyers At that point You know if if Macro keeps us hey, you know, does Carolina say hey You know, I know I know they have hilti now on that that right side So maybe they don't want to go get fieldsy as well. But if they did I mean

Neil Barrett (01:08:16.483)
Oh, yeah. I forgot what the question was.

Brandon Hooten (01:08:31.552)
Just thinking about all the other teams, those guys are still top tier talents and I don't know where else they would really go. I'm sure there's other moves that could be made, but it's just... I think this offseason going into it right now, they have the most questions in my mind roster-wise.

Neil Barrett (01:08:48.579)
Neil Barrett (01:08:55.715)
So, Connor Fields is contracted through next season.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:01.428)
Okay, I thought he was done this season. Okay, so that actually works out then. Macklekeyf is a free agent, so, though,

Neil Barrett (01:09:05.891)
Yes, it says through 2026. Let me see.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:12.672)
Man, please tell me I'm not completely off on this and I'm just tugging.

Neil Barrett (01:09:16.035)
Well, so the rumor is that Connor Fields is one of the guys leaving. He's not the rumor is not that he's leaving the archers. It's that he's leaving the league that he had his his like no Mac O'Keeffe is through 2026 as well.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:28.448)
Wow, okay, so I'm just completely off-base then.

Neil Barrett (01:09:31.256)
So so both of the rumors around those guys is that is not that they're leaving the archers. It's that they are leaving the league. These are rumors. We'll see what happens. But that that is the rumor. Yeah, no, no, that's that's because I didn't know either. I didn't when you said that, I was like, man, could could they go? I had I had been hearing that they were leaving the league. But this kind of makes it that if if they're leaving the archers, it is most likely to leave the league. A trade could happen. Something could happen.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:38.868)
Okay. I conflated the two. My apologies.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:59.894)
Okay.

Neil Barrett (01:10:01.015)
But if they are not with the archers, it is most likely that they are not playing in the PLL next year. So.

Brandon Hooten (01:10:08.298)
Okay, that actually does make some sense, which from that perspective then pick back right back up on our conversation. Now you have even more opportunity for guys to come in and play, which makes me think that they're going to have to be massive buyers of whoever's available and then in the draft as well.

Neil Barrett (01:10:16.205)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:10:25.131)
Yeah, it's one of the reasons why I have really liked your idea of the archers going for Zed because it's relatively low risk. And with a, with kind of a high reward, if you can, if you can get him for a, especially if you can get him for like a third round pick, you know, you take Zed Williams, who again has been an MVP in this league. He's on a team where he's, he just doesn't have a whole lot of space anyway, even though in my mind, and I have argued this on this show before,

he's the guy that does things a little bit different than everyone else. So in my mind, he could really still work in Philly, but he's now that that room is getting smaller and smaller. So it makes a lot of sense for him to move somewhere else. Like I said, if they can get him for, for relatively low price, it could be something that, that has a lot of return for them. So the more you have explained to that, I've been like, yeah, yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.

But you also bring up a good point that the Carolina chaos, you know, every time an offensive player comes up with like, well, where could they go? It's always Carolina because they, they need so much help. I think, I think they're, basically need all six offensive positions. mean, I guess five of the six, cause you'd say Owen Hiltz probably has his pretty secure, maybe even four, if you said, you know,

Jackson Eicher has his position. Although my question would be what, what position does he play? Cause he was kind of anywhere they needed him. So in that sense, I think those two guys are, are secure in playing offense. I don't know that Jackson Eicher has a set position. He could kind of be moved anywhere. So in that sense, you kind of, it's kind of four is kind of five positions.

Brandon Hooten (01:12:03.275)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:12:22.135)
You know, the only one that I'd say is really locked up is that that left side attack spot with Owen Hiltz. Everyone else is going to be, you know, said could come to Carolina. I, Connor Fields, like you said, Connor Fields could come to Carolina if, know, they make some kind of move. I still think Rob Pinnell could fit in Carolina. They could be big movers as well. So. Yeah, that. That's a lot.

Brandon Hooten (01:12:34.42)
I've thought about that as well.

Neil Barrett (01:12:52.973)
to think about a lot of computing we just did trying to navigate all of the different things. And I think it is going to be very interesting to look back on in six months, eight months. It's probably going to be really interesting to look back on this time next year when the season is over and to see how it all all played out and where it all went.

Let's move on to something that I have been wanting to talk about for a good while, but it just never quite felt the right time to bring up just because we had so many we were going over games and all the kind of big news of the season and everything. But now we have we have a little bit of a break. I wondered what are some changes that you would make if we made you the

Look, lacrosse czar for a day or a month or whatever. And you were able to make whatever changes you wanted to the game as a whole. It doesn't have to be PLL specific, doesn't have to be anything specific, just the sport as a whole. What are three changes that you'll make? We can go one by one if you would like.

So yeah, let's go one by one. What is the first change that you would make?

Brandon Hooten (01:14:25.877)
Fighting is allowed.

Neil Barrett (01:14:28.919)
just across the board.

Brandon Hooten (01:14:30.629)
the board. Obviously there are limits as there are in box leagues right now you can't just go and you know pallet drive someone or whatever but I think it makes the sport exciting and I think we saw this year alone how I mean it I mean the NLL made on the Joe Rogan podcast because of a fight. Now people can argue is that the best representation of a sport I don't really care it's part of it in box it's awesome I think it'd be fun

And I think more casual fans. I have friends that like hockey because there's fighting. They could care less about the actual game. They just want to see fists being thrown.

Neil Barrett (01:15:10.339)
See, I don't know that it's necessarily an unpopular opinion. It might be like a 50-50 opinion. I don't know. I am of the opposite opinion, not so much that I want to get rid of it. I think it serves a purpose in both hockey and box. My thought with hockey, because I've been a hockey guy for a really long time.

Brandon Hooten (01:15:12.462)
It's an unpopular opinion, but...

Neil Barrett (01:15:41.162)
My thought with it is if if you like the fight, not if you like the fighting, if if you're there to watch the fighting, you're not a hockey fan. I know I know so many people that say, I like hockey because of the fighting that couldn't tell you the first thing about the sport, couldn't tell you five team names, couldn't tell you three player names, couldn't tell you.

who won the Stanley cup last year have not watched a game all year. They have maybe seen some fighting highlights on, you know, sports center or on social media or whatever. And to me that's, you don't really like the sport. you're, if you're not, if you're not paying at least paying attention to it, even if, know, it's too difficult to actually sit down and watch the games all the time. But if you're not keeping track of it, if you can't name, you know, if I asked you to name three people and it's like,

Sidney Crosby, Alexander Ovechkin, and then you kind of run out of names. It's like, are you really a fan of that sport? I don't, I don't think you are again. Debate we could have.

Brandon Hooten (01:16:46.081)
Sure, but La Crosse doesn't have those fans right now. So I would argue it's better to have those people in seats to at least be there than to not.

Neil Barrett (01:16:55.683)
How many how many people do you think are really going are paying money to go watch lacrosse games in LL games because they know there's a likelihood of of a fight breaking out.

Brandon Hooten (01:17:14.305)
I would say more than you think.

I'd say the hockey, same thing. Again, it made it on Joe Rogan, it made it on Pat McAfee. I mean, we're talking about shows and things that aren't showing normal lacrosse highlights, but they got word of this. Now they're showing it to their platforms. You saw a boost in numbers on social media platforms. And again, it's exciting for the people who also still care about the sport itself and are gonna be there. It adds to the atmosphere, in my opinion.

Neil Barrett (01:17:45.011)
but a lot of that I think is social media is just the way social media were. mean you could have two bums fighting on the street and and one knocks one out and that clip's gonna go viral. It doesn't make people a fan of bum fights it just they like seeing someone get knocked out you know like I don't

Brandon Hooten (01:18:04.062)
Sure, but that doesn't have top tier sports podcasters saying, wait, what is the NLL? I think I like this. As Pat McAfee did on his show on ESPN.

Neil Barrett (01:18:14.796)
Yes, but that goes to the point. It's like, it's like PF PMT and they're, they're being an owner of the water dogs and how that's good for the sport. But then they don't, they don't watch the games. They don't talk about the games. They don't do anything. The one time the water dogs were in the championship, they, they posted, they had like eight TVs, all of them watching football. And then they had brought in one tiny little TV and it was sitting on the floor.

And they were, and that was showing the water dogs game that nobody was watching. No one gave a shit. Like, let's just be real here. That was not the thing. And now suddenly we're saying like, see there. They really like the sport. Like Pat McAfee is not tuning into an NLL game. He, he said it, he said it. And I know some of the guys on his show are fans of the game.

Joe Rogan ain't watching an NLL game. Like, that's just the reality.

Brandon Hooten (01:19:17.46)
But it's not about them though. It's about them putting it on their platform that people can see when you have millions of viewers. Right now we stop it and we literally actively try to hide fights from social media and saying, it's a bad look. What's better? The same amount of fans and an increase over here to see maybe we can grab more or just these fans. And then trying to hide it, acting like it's not part of the competition.

Neil Barrett (01:19:45.685)
I think it's a misnomer. That's what I I think it doesn't translate to fans is my argument. if somebody has a statistic that says like, these three clips brought in X amount of fans, which I know is nearly impossible to realistically quantify, then fine. I just don't think that it, I don't think it actually translates into

fans.

Brandon Hooten (01:20:22.528)
I mean look at UFC stadiums, all I'm going say. People like fighting.

Neil Barrett (01:20:22.967)
What?

Neil Barrett (01:20:26.594)
Yeah, but that's that is the sport of fighting. Like that's a that's a different thing in my mind. However, let me also say. That. The pushing in the back and stuff that happens in the NLL, I'm not for like I came from field and that is a penalty and I can't do it.

And to that, to that point.

Brandon Hooten (01:20:52.712)
Are you talking about on screens or what are you talking about?

Neil Barrett (01:20:57.634)
Just, just generally, you know, when the, when the ball comes up in the boards or something, somebody that's going for a ground ball, they, they, they start pushing each other in the back. And I've seen so many people get boarded and like it's, but what I'm saying is that's like an accepted part of the game. Like that is just how the game is played. Let me, let me put it this way. I started watching Aussie rules football back in like 2010 and

almost every single time there's any kind of whistle or dead ball or whatever. Those dudes are like shoving each other. They're like screaming at each other. It's and it's one of those things that like in any, in any American sport would be a penalty would be some kind of a flag or whatever. It's just like how they play the game. It's just like an accepted part of, of the, the rhythm of the flow of the game that like

Yeah, you're going to do a little bit of shoving after the whistle. You're going to do, you know, a little bit of talking or whatever. And just from from where I come from, like the sporting culture of it is like it really drives me. It drives me crazy. But also, like, I understand that that's just part of the game that I'm just never going to understand, because I wasn't raised the way that that was. So I say everything that I'm saying.

while also acknowledging that it's just me, not it's just me, but like, it's based off of my understanding of the game. And I understand that other people don't.

Brandon Hooten (01:22:39.517)
You just don't like extracurriculars, essentially.

Neil Barrett (01:22:42.86)
don't like extracurriculars. That is definitely.

Brandon Hooten (01:22:44.213)
You like the game and that's it. That's fine.

Neil Barrett (01:22:47.604)
Not not necessarily there. There's a there's a way to do extracurriculars that that doesn't bother me. But just as like as like a flat statement. Yeah, I would I would say that's that's probably accurate.

Brandon Hooten (01:23:01.727)
That's fair. I'm the opposite. I personally love extracurriculars.

Neil Barrett (01:23:06.114)
Like I said, there's a way to do it, you know, I think... I don't know.

Brandon Hooten (01:23:10.665)
There are definitely certain things, like I've seen dudes get like cup checked for like no apparent reason, then I'm like, okay, what, like, there was one, there was one at the man cup actually that I was kind of like, yes, Dane was talking trash, but you probably don't need to jab him with your stick. Then again though, he was talking trash. So, you know, that's the other part of me that's kind of like, it's, it is kind of like the game within the game. But I understand why people don't like it.

Neil Barrett (01:23:17.377)
Yeah, that

Neil Barrett (01:23:22.44)
yeah, yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:23:34.775)
There's a there's. Yeah, there's a part of me that that as a response to trash to talk to to talk trash like as a response to it like that kind of works for me. I don't know. I I probably wouldn't do any. I was very much, you know, that that Emmett Smith like score the touchdown hand the ball to the ref and run to the sideline like that was that was just me.

Brandon Hooten (01:23:59.72)
See, that's how I played sports, but when I watch sports, I'm the opposite. Like, I want to see all the dances, spike the ball, get a taunting panel, not literally, but you know, like, taunting should be allowed in the NFL is what I'm saying.

Neil Barrett (01:24:15.33)
You are you are just at odds with yourself here. Just a complete dichotomy. I like it. I like it. My first one is to bring a two point line to college. I I think I think it's needed. It's necessary. I put it at 13 yards, put it at 14 yards, but, move it, move it a little bit farther in.

Brandon Hooten (01:24:19.899)
Yes, I'm not doing it, but I think they should do it.

Neil Barrett (01:24:42.995)
Just because guys are maybe a little bit younger a little bit, you know, less strong, whatever. But yeah, I think we need a two point line in college.

Neil Barrett (01:24:58.37)
have no idea what's happening. I don't know if you can hear that or not. They're screaming. They're happening.

Brandon Hooten (01:25:02.879)
I don't know. Can't oh I did hear that. Can we bring the PLL shot clock then with it or maybe not in 52 but could we make it like 65.

Brandon Hooten (01:25:17.649)
Or do you want to mix and match like... rules? I find the college game to be a little bit too slow. Like, shot-clockwise. Like, I don't think we need 80 seconds to move the ball.

Neil Barrett (01:25:18.242)
Thanks.

Neil Barrett (01:25:30.722)
How much of that is that you come from the NLL with a 30 second shot clock?

Brandon Hooten (01:25:37.371)
No, because I'm fine with the PLL being 52.

Neil Barrett (01:25:40.461)
Well, yeah, but but 52 is I think is fairly equivalent to a 30 second shot clock on a on a, you know, outdoor field that's, know, two, three times the size of a of a rink. I think that's much more equivalent. This is this is my thing about the shot clock. I don't like to force teams to play. like. No, no, no.

Brandon Hooten (01:26:06.164)
the game.

Neil Barrett (01:26:10.754)
No, I think there's a difference between. Between stalling, playing four corners and just like standing around and passing the ball and a team that plays a little bit slower, a little bit more deliberately, you know, like Notre Dame. I like watching Notre Dame play a different style of lacrosse to everyone else. I was initially against a shot clock at all.

I think I have been proven probably wrong on that. Yes, I think the 90 second has been good that, you know, it makes people get into the game and play the game. But also has allowed some teams to have some variance in style. You know, Albany's coming down and taking a shot in the first 15 seconds. I think it's fine that that

Brandon Hooten (01:26:42.2)
Yeah, you need something. In my opinion.

Neil Barrett (01:27:09.28)
you know, Notre Dame and some of these other teams are maybe a little bit more methodical that the, the way that, that the game has played, that the differences in the way that the game has played, has always been very interesting to me. It's always been fascinating to see kind of what, works and what doesn't. And to be fair, it's not like playing Notre Dame's methodical style has worked for them. the two championships,

three years ago, I understand might people might think that shoots this argument in the foot, but it's, mean, Kevin Corrigan has been there for what? 38 years, 39 years at this point. He's won two championships and it took building, having Liam Intiman and goal and two Cavanaugh's on the field. Like, you know, it's not like, it's not like he's just dominating by playing a slower brand of the game. Neither.

to that point neither is Albany by playing a faster brand of the game. Like I find that really fascinating. I'm not suggesting that the PLL changed their clock, but in a lot of ways I do kind of wish that they had a slightly slower clock that teams could vary the way that they play. I don't want to see everybody playing the game the exact same way is basically it, especially at the NCAA level where we have so many more teams.

Neil Barrett (01:28:40.578)
He's like, whatever, I'm over it.

Brandon Hooten (01:28:44.836)
I agree on the two point. I don't know that I agree on the shot clock, but that's okay.

Neil Barrett (01:28:48.714)
I I I like that my point was the two point line and then we didn't even talk about we're both like, yeah, and then we'd move on.

Brandon Hooten (01:28:54.034)
Well, cause I agree, it just makes the most sense.

Neil Barrett (01:28:58.88)
What is your second thing?

Brandon Hooten (01:29:02.142)
Well, I'm glad I got my I guess controversial one out of the way because these are gonna be a breeze. I'll go with a non playing one first I think we should have a trading card set one per year per league

no matter what. What happened this year with the PLL and I'm not necessarily faulting them because I think they've done a good job doing it themselves and all that thing. But I'm a huge card collector. I didn't collect the newest set. Why? I already had the set from before. It was the same year. It was the same stuff. So let's just, I want to see it to be, hey, this is our set this year. I don't need to have like, like the NFL right now. I mean, all the other leagues have, I mean, a million different sets.

I don't need all those, just need this is we're collecting. And then you get your players from each league that you like. Now with WLL you'll have three different sets. College I recognize is gonna be a hurdle because of NIL and there's a lot of them. I do think it would be kind of cool to get some type of college collectible out there as well though. At least for the guys that you know are gonna be top of their teams and then maybe go.

Like I think that'd be kind of cool to have a college card and then a rookie card when they're in the pros

Neil Barrett (01:30:22.784)
I like that. I like that. didn't we didn't even talk about the NLL has two different sets coming out with leaf and

Brandon Hooten (01:30:27.23)
Yep, that as well. Like I'm collecting one of those, not the other one. We don't need two.

Neil Barrett (01:30:31.446)
Yeah, same with me. I'm not. Yeah, yeah. And it's funny because I did just order another set of the another box of the field side kit. That being said, I agree with you. I did order. I did order them. But just because, you know, I I wanted to I didn't I didn't get the whole set. So I was like, I want to try and get the whole set.

But generally speaking, yeah, I agree with you. It should be one. I will give them a little bit of space on the WLL and PLL. I don't know how you really put those two together. So if each has one set, if there's one WLL set and one PLL set and one NLL set, like, yeah, I'm fine with that. But yeah, it's getting, like you said, I don't know how you do the NCAA set. That, that can be nuts.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:15.196)
Yeah, yeah, that's what I want.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:28.062)
That one's probably the most far-fetched, but I thought about that as I was speaking, to be honest. But I just think it'd be cool. There's some guys that I'm like, oh, if you went to Duke or you live in the area of a college, it'd be cool to be like, oh, hey, look at this card I got of Jimmy Freehill. That type of thing would be cool. But again, I just don't know the logistics of that. But I just think collecting cards a little bit more simple.

Neil Barrett (01:31:30.411)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:56.383)
And also allow that chase to really occur where it's like, cause like I didn't have to buy one set of either league cause I know I'm going to get more of the other league of the other set. Whereas if you have the one now it's like, okay, I got to make sure I get my cards. I'm actually trading potentially or, you know, buying secondary market or just whatever, but more of a fun one.

Neil Barrett (01:32:16.962)
By the way, don't think that I didn't hear that you just slid Jimmy Freehill in here. We're not even talking about the games. We're not even talking about like he's still he's still being brought up. We didn't even need it had nothing to do with nothing.

Brandon Hooten (01:32:34.455)
I always had everything to do with everything.

Neil Barrett (01:32:36.706)
My number two is we don't talk about Jimmy Freel.

Brandon Hooten (01:32:44.636)
And that's my cue to exit stage left there boys.

Neil Barrett (01:32:47.714)
Wait, wait, are you suggesting that rather than not talk about Jimmy Freehill, you would just not be on the show anymore?

Brandon Hooten (01:32:56.144)
Yeah, Jimmy4Hill's gotta be mentioned... ...one, maybe, maybe twice. You know?

Neil Barrett (01:32:58.53)
Once an episode.

Maybe twice. Okay. All right. Well, we'll make sure we put that in your writer for this season.

Brandon Hooten (01:33:06.363)
yeah, when he scores his first NLO goal, man, I'm gonna be insufferable

Neil Barrett (01:33:12.122)
I will go off of, off of yours. I want to see the one caveat to what you said about having one addition is I would love to see like a tops now kind of thing of like a moment like Jimmy Freehill's first goal in the NLL like, like CJ curse's first goal in the NLL, you know, or the

Brandon Hooten (01:33:35.934)
Okay.

Neil Barrett (01:33:41.175)
the PLL or whatever. Like I would love to see that kind of, you know, off kind of thing. Even if, even if you did it, I don't, I don't know enough about how Tops Now does it, but if there was once a week we picked like one moment and that was the, the now card of the, of this week. I think that would be so much fun. It would, it would kind of give you something to

collect outside of just the the one kind of season box set or whatever it is. I think that would be so much fun. know, you know, Michael Harrison has talked about that a lot. He does a lot of the tops now cards. Yeah, I think that would be that would be so much fun a way to kind of go off of that. So how many how many more you got?

Brandon Hooten (01:34:36.093)
Technically two, but one of them is like really really quick. So I'll go with the other one I'll just do both real quick because one of them I've talked about before No, more so applies to just PLL, but it can be integrated to other leagues no bi-weeks week one or the final week and then you need to to portion them out That's not probably how you should say it but whatever like great example Colorado Mammoth

Neil Barrett (01:34:39.362)
All right, let's do it.

Neil Barrett (01:34:52.034)
off.

Brandon Hooten (01:35:06.105)
Season scheduled this year in the first month They play twice Because they have two bi-weeks week two and week four and they have been on the short end of that stick for at least three seasons in a row now That i've counted and like that should not be happening. I think it was philly was off in the pll the first week that shouldn't happen The outlaws were out the last week of that shouldn't happen. Like we just need to figure out a better system in general for bi-weeks which again we've talked about in depth so I won't go crazy

Neil Barrett (01:35:31.255)
Yes.

Brandon Hooten (01:35:34.994)
The one that I put last on here was actually I want to see leagues and teams be more involved in their local communities. I know like the Mammoth and Cronky just did a gear drive. I know the PLL does some stuff, sending out player two each week. But I would like to see more of that to where there's more connection with the teams and leagues obviously with the youth scene. that way, cause a lot of youth from what I understand actually don't watch pro leagues.

At the rate we think they should. think that would help. also think like I saw you were talking to us people on Twitter this week about sort of the youth system becoming more more like the football system is in America where like kids aren't necessarily having to buy everything. And it's it in the large part comes because people are donating or they're passed down. I just think doing more gear drives would help grow the sport. I mean, exponentially, especially because you can

potentially reuse stuff for quite a while and I know a lot of guys have like tons of sticks or tons of You know arm pads or helmets that they just don't use anymore And with especially teams like they're gonna order a lot of stuff in in bulk to an extent So I just like to see that not saying that they don't do a good job right now But there's always room for you know more in the community in my opinion

Neil Barrett (01:36:57.026)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I'll hit on both of those first bi-weeks across the board are insane. I don't understand why we have so many. mean, I understand the idea of like, it's a niche sport. We're having to deal with fields and availability and, you know, arenas and stuff. And so on one hand, I can, I can sort of understand some of the difficulty there.

but.

It just doesn't make any sense. The PLL taking two weeks off to start the playoffs, playing two weeks of playoffs and then having two weeks off before the championship. just doesn't make sense. And then, yes, like you said, the the water dogs having a by the first week and the outlaws having a by that last week. Like that's ridiculous. That should not be happening. And then, like you mentioned, it drives me crazy in the NLL. Last year, I talked about it where

There was all this buildup of of training camp and all these things. And then you get to the first week of the season and there's only like two games. And.

Brandon Hooten (01:38:10.289)
Yeah, I mean, mean this year Colorado and Calgary don't play a home game literally until after Christmas, a month in.

Neil Barrett (01:38:16.652)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I'm trying to remember, I think there was someone I think I wanted to watch. Maybe it was Lyle or something and they didn't, they played like one game in the first like month of the season last year. And it was just like, you did all this building up and then, and then it's nothing. And it just doesn't make any sense to me. And then, and then you'll come and you'll play one game. This is specifically with the NLL. You'll come in and you'll, you'll have like a week or two off and then you'll play one game and then you'll have another week or two off. And it's just like,

And then, and then like, you're like a month into the season and some teams have played like four games and some teams have played one game and, then, you know, another month into the season, some teams have played seven and some have played three. And it's like, you know, I remember trying to track, know, kind of where teams are kind of a broad, almost power rankings. And it was so hard because so many teams had played so many fewer games. wasn't like

They had had one by week or something. They had had so many fewer games. It was like, yeah, but is this team any good? They've only played two teams and that, you know, I, just, I dunno, that whole, the, the whole scheduling by weeks and everything is a, is a mess. It doesn't make any sense. And then the thing about like being involved in the communities, I think is so true. It was a little strange to me.

They didn't do a lacrosse gear drive. The mammoth. They did like just a general sports equipment gear drive, which I felt was a little strange. I don't know. I don't know how much it was. It was a crunky sport. Okay.

Brandon Hooten (01:39:47.153)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:39:50.455)
it was a was a cronky sports thing that's just why so then that includes nuggets, avs, i didn't see the rapids there but

Neil Barrett (01:39:56.471)
But but it was funny too, because even even then, like people were donating bikes and stuff, which is great. Get, you know, donate things that you aren't using. Let other people have them. I'm all for it. It just felt a little strange because I specifically saw the mammoth. And like you said, it was cranky sports. So that that does kind of open it up a little bit. But I saw the mammoth posting and I didn't see a single lacrosse piece of equipment being donated anywhere. And I was like, that's

feels a little strange. But yeah, this whole conversation came up because I was at my nephew's games and I was noticing all these kids had like brand new gear, like NFL helmets and stuff like, like current generation helmets and stuff, which they, which they should, we have so much more like helmet technology than what we had, you know, even 10, 15 years ago, much less when I was playing, much less when, you know, my, the

previous generation was playing. But I was I was just no I was just struck by how much gear they had and how nice it all was like I would have expected like you were saying gear drives and hand me down equipment and stuff and mismatch but no these this is this is small small town. You know I grew up in a place where where there were the the rec teams that I played we didn't have to leave this

the city. I, we just played other rec league rec teams in our city. These kids are traveling across state lines to play other people. They're traveling, you know, two hours away to play other people. Cause it's that small. These communities are that small. And, and, you know, the, team that my, my nephews play on, they it's kind of the, surrounding area, the, the, it's, it's, you know, five, six towns worth of kids are playing on, these one teams.

Brandon Hooten (01:41:35.216)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:41:55.046)
And when I asked and was, it made me really curious. Like how, how are they, I thought maybe the kids were having to buy their equipment like they would in lacrosse and they, aren't, they, she was like, no, no, that's all owned by the program. You know, we just kind of a kid called it, who was part of that conversation on Twitter. He called it gear rental, which in my mind, my mind meant like, you know, a tux rental or a movie rental, like you're paying a price to rent it.

And he was like, no, that's not really what we mean. It's it's literally just kind of like it's more like a library rental where like you have you're on the team so you can you rent it even though you don't technically pay for it.

Brandon Hooten (01:42:35.27)
which is how a lot of high schools do it right now. I know out here at least like this year, the Broncos donated like $15 million worth of like the newest helmets. It's not to like all the high schools. It's definitely not full teams worth, but it's enough. And like then the helmets, at least from the programs that I've personally been in, like belong to that school. So then every year it's, you know, and if you're a freshman and you have a helmet, you might keep that helmet for the four years.

but then it goes back to, you know, whatever, as long as it's in good condition. And I've always thought about this conversation specifically with football, because I'm like, football's gotta be more expensive gear wise. And yet I'm seeing kids that aren't well off in any way playing it. So I'm like, there's gotta be a way to do it. And I really do think it is just gear drives. And I know like Denver City Lacs does some stuff with donations and some other organizations do some good stuff. I mean, I think it's possible.

Neil Barrett (01:43:14.189)
yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:43:32.494)
And with the growth that we're seeing in the sport, I think that would be a huge help.

Neil Barrett (01:43:33.015)
Well,

Neil Barrett (01:43:36.771)
Every program that I've ever been involved in that did a gear drive. It's it's good. It's necessary. It does help. But you end up with mismatch gear, all kinds of stuff. And that's what specifically struck me about the football that I was at this weekend was it was like top of the line gear. It all matched. They had really nice uniforms. They had really nice just everything. And the kids basically played they

basically paid for their own personal stuff. So cleats, any kind of socks or gloves or anything that they themselves wanted to wear, everything else was provided. And like you said, that stuff is, is at least as expensive as lacrosse gear. And I was thinking about when I first started playing, the only reason I got the, I I'm from a single mother family. Like we didn't have any money. The only reason I was able to play when my high school got a team was because

My high school had a deal with Baccarac, was great Atlantic lacrosse, which then became lacrosse.com. That's kind of the lineage there. They had a deal, but they had to deal with Baccarac and for $125, we got a cascade helmet, which was just the original cascade back in the day. Not the lace up one, but the first cascade helmet. And then a whole

line of backer rack gear. And it was, it was crappy gear. was not something I would advise people to play long-term in, but it was $125 for all of that. And so then I had a $30 stick and then I had cleats from playing, you know, football. So all in for 150 bucks and I could play lacrosse. I, again, I had to, I got a new stick for Christmas. I upgraded my shoulder pads and my elbow pads and everything.

because it was not great equipment, but it got me on the field. got me playing and I just don't see that anywhere. And, and I should also say I wasn't the only one that did. mean, I'd say 75 % of our team did that $125 deal. We all were wearing backer rack, these big goofy, like eighties looking like backer rack pads and stuff. but like, don't, I don't see things like that. Number one,

Neil Barrett (01:46:02.846)
And the few that you do are significantly higher. And then, yeah, like I said, you know, I was seeing all this like top end gear and I'm like, how are we doing? You know, my sister in law said, I think I think she paid it was somewhere in like the neighborhood of 150 for her kids to play. And it was like. And that came with like top of the line gear, and I just I just don't understand how they do it and like how there has to be a way that we can do that. So.

Let's let's move on though. The last one that I've had and this is this is probably the one that made me want to have this conversation was I have a thought on how to change the entire lacrosse calendar that I think probably makes everyone a little bit mad, which is probably the path forward. Maybe I don't know.

You guys can decide, I guess. And that is to move the PLL season to the spring, play more or less what the NCAA season is, you know, give or take whatever they need to do to make it fit and move the NLL season to post Memorial Day through the summer. And that solves several issues. One, I think for the PLL, it puts

the most eyes on the sport while people are playing it, while they are watching college, while they are like, it just kind of concentrates all of- it's similar to the NFL, you know, or, or football, I should say where the high schools are playing at the same time that the colleges are playing at the same time that the NFL is playing. And we just have a football season and everybody is kind of in on football for that time period.

It also keeps them away from football, all that stuff. And for the NLL, first of all, you kind of go back to your roots because that's when the NLL, not in L.O., but that's when Box was played. The reason that Box was created was so that hockey arena owners had something to fill their arenas with during the summer when they couldn't have ice because refrigeration isn't what it is now. And and

Neil Barrett (01:48:33.258)
sort of what we were talking about earlier with the availability kind of things and all these little like bye weeks and stuff. It gets a lot easier when you don't have to compete directly with hockey. And I know that there's probably some summer hockey and everything. I just, feels like it makes so much sense for everyone to do that. CJ Kurz this year plays Cornell in the spring. Then he gets drafted, goes into playing for the Toronto Rock through the summer.

and then joins his PLL team, you know, in February or whatever they do. The one caveat I'll say is I don't know what that does to like senior A, junior A kind of things that play during the summer.

Brandon Hooten (01:49:17.017)
I got that figured out. I got it figured out. And we've talked about this before. That becomes a farm league for the NLL.

Neil Barrett (01:49:28.5)
I that. I like that. don't, I don't know a ton about it, although

Brandon Hooten (01:49:29.253)
Problem solved.

Brandon Hooten (01:49:32.923)
I will say this too, we are not the only ones who have discussed this and think it could work out.

Brandon Hooten (01:49:44.667)
I personally think that's the best solution. The only problem with that, in my mind at least, is that the people who play NLL and Senior A now can't do both if they're aligned at the same time.

Neil Barrett (01:50:00.79)
Yeah. Yeah. So the one thing I thought was, well, you could move senior a to. To the like current NLL schedule, the only the only thought I had about that was I don't know how many of these senior a junior a kind of levels are using hockey facilities that maybe are playing through the winter. But by moving the NLL, you at least

Brandon Hooten (01:50:14.341)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:50:30.764)
get out of hockey and basketball season that are predominantly using a lot of these at least bigger arenas, you know, obviously like Buffalo shares an arena with the Buffalo Sabres. I think

Brandon Hooten (01:50:45.403)
think the Sabers share it with the Bandits, Based on attendance.

Neil Barrett (01:50:48.32)
Well, at this point, at this point, that's that's probably true. At this point, that's probably true. But Colorado shares an arena with the Avalanche and the Nuggets. You know, I think it would be so much easier for the mammoth to schedule in the summer. Now they're going to they're still going to have to fight with concerts and other events that are held. But at least you don't have two teams sitting in your arena that are going to take priority.

Brandon Hooten (01:50:55.311)
Yeah, two teams.

Neil Barrett (01:51:17.654)
both of those teams are going to take priority over the Mammoth. So it's something I thought that, you know, might be kind of controversial. I don't know, especially in LL. think, I think most field fans could get on board with the PLL being at more or less the same time as the NCAA season. In fact, I think people have encouraged that the idea of kind of like we do with college football, you know, college lacrosse could be Saturday and college.

And the PLL could be Sunday that that sort of system could at least in theory work. And of course it won't be it won't be a hard line. Like there could be there could be other games on other days, but that could kind of work. I think getting the NLL to shift would be maybe a little bit harder to do. But I think there are so many benefits to it that the only the only I think real thing to sell is what happens to to senior a and those guys, though.

like we talked about in previous weeks, maybe that could be what makes senior a, an amateur league again, or maybe not. Maybe, maybe it makes it worse, but you know, you're not paying for Lyle Thompson. You're paying for whoever the best guy who's not playing in the NLLs. I don't know, but, I think it, I think it makes too much sense not to at least seriously investigate.

Brandon Hooten (01:52:47.828)
I'm telling you, you're not the only one.

Neil Barrett (01:52:51.618)
I love I love the little like ominous like I know more than you know sprinkles

Brandon Hooten (01:52:59.062)
I don't know anything. I don't know anything. I'm just saying from conversations I've had, I don't think it's gonna be that as crazy of a move. Like if they presented it, I don't think it's gonna be like, what? can't move to, you know, I think it's gonna be like, hey. Cause I mean, even you gotta think about like for the people that own the buildings, the owners that own the buildings as well, I would...

Venture to say they'd probably even give priority to an NLL team over some concerts in the summer Not not I'm not saying like if you know the you know, the the top of the top came they're not gonna be like sorry like Right, but like there's a lot of concerts that happen at ballerina that I'm like I Could see you getting bumped like if you're getting 8,000 and mammoth are pulling 10 or 11

Neil Barrett (01:53:30.06)
Some, yeah for sure.

Neil Barrett (01:53:36.674)
Taylor Swift is taking a priority for sure.

Brandon Hooten (01:53:49.592)
You and now you're only competing with two different things as opposed to like you said three and this was this solution also gets The outdoor guys off the field in like the dead heat of summer like the fact that they're had they're having to put their cleats and sticks on ice is Insane right now, so I think that solves that problem as well So yeah, I like it

Neil Barrett (01:54:00.812)
Yes, yes. That was one thing I forgot to mention.

Neil Barrett (01:54:14.336)
All right. Well, on on that bombshell, you and I agreeing for once today.

Brandon Hooten (01:54:23.028)
we agree on other things we agree that you free on is we talked about every episode

Neil Barrett (01:54:28.162)
That was that was your two. That was your two. That is going to do it for us this week. Brandon and I are going to take about a month. It looks like maybe maybe it's five weeks, I think, at this point until the beginning of November off. But unlike some of your other favorite podcasts, we are not done for.

the foreseeable future just for a couple of weeks. I will say that I do have an interview with S.L. Price who wrote the American game that will be dropping at some point in that month off. We were supposed to record today and I had to postpone it. So depending on when we get that is to when that will actually drop it might be next week. It might be some point. Keep an eye on our socials. I will let you know when that is coming.

That should be good. But otherwise we will be back at the first week of November unless with the one caveat that unless The CBA completely falls apart and there's just no NLL to be talking about we might push it back But we should be back at the beginning of November so Be looking out for that Like I said, we will post on social media about that if you enjoyed today's show or any show that you have ever heard from us

Don't forget to leave a review of the pod. Give this episode a like a follow comment, subscribe, all of those good things. Follow us on social media at run out pod or leave us a comment there as well. You can also find me at I am Neil Barrett on Instagram and Twitter and Brandon at hoot sports media on Instagram and Twitter. All of your comments and likes and ratings and all of that stuff.

really helps us get into people's algorithms and helps the show grow. Plus we really love interacting with y'all and want to keep growing out this community, but that is it for today. So until the beginning of November, we will catch you guys in the comments.