Who's #2?

Neil Barrett: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the run out. I am Neil Barrett. Unfortunately, today I don't have Brandon, but I am joined by longtime friend of the show. Mr. Jackson Van Vlake. you may know him from his own podcast, Empty the Quiver, right? I did, I am remembering that, right? I I was like, that's the name of the show. And then I was like, I don't know, ever since I wrote it down, I was like, that's not the name of the show. I'm making that up. I'm totally screwing it up. I'm not even gonna, you know, broadcast his show correctly. So where he he's he hosts that with JB. Jackson: That's correct. Neil Barrett: you may also if you're if you're a longtime listener of the run out, you may remember that him and I did Gold Rush last man, when was that? last last February. Right? Jackson: 2025 February, the last time the archers were in it. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause they're not in it this year and they're not gonna be in it this coming year either. Jackson: No, let's not say that yet. Neil Barrett: but we have a lot going on this week. We had a wild overtime game in San Diego. The NCAA just changed college eligibility forever with five for five. And Jackson's archers are kind of falling apart. but before we get into all of that, Jackson, it's it's been a long time since we talked. How are you doing, man? Jackson: Yeah, good man. Like you said, new show. Super excited about that. Having an awesome time doing it. Yeah, we have some connects, so we've been very fortunate with our guests. You know, we've already had Chris Bates. Personal favorite guest of mine, Archer's Beat Rider Zach Harry. Those guys don't get enough love for what they do. They're awesome. And then we've had a handful of guys on. So yeah, it's been a blast so far. You know. If nothing ever comes from it, then getting a little access to some of the players and coaches, that'd be fine with me. I just love talking ball. So thank you again for having me and excited to do it with you today. Neil Barrett: I appreciate you you jumping on. this was one of the few times that I've I've asked you a few times, but it's like day of because often we don't know that Brandon isn't gonna be available or whatever. And you're like, yeah, man, I can't. But luckily he knew a well ahead of time. So I I I messaged you. And so I really appreciate you you jumping on. I always have a lot of fun talking to you about the game, even though even though now nowadays you it's it's pretty much archers and and then And then a little a little bit of the rest. trying to think, trying to think if there's anything worth catching anyone else up on. I was I was dog sitting this weekend, so I actually got to watch the games, all of the games live. I I feel like I'm watching a lot of games, you know, the Monday or Tuesday. because we normally record Tuesdays. we are recording Mondays. So I mean I normally have a few days to kind of catch up on things, but I I was able to watch all of the games this weekend. So kind of kind of a boring weekend, but a good one I guess. So you know. You you've been watching any of the World Cup? Brandon's not a World Cup guy. You been watching any of it? Jackson: Yeah, pretty strong. I watch every USA game and I really enjoy it when it gets to, I guess this year it'll be the round of 16. I'll watch all of that on. When I can at least, I don't know. Some of these three o'clock starts are a little tougher to catch with a full-time job. yeah, anything I can watch at that point, I mean, I'll definitely watch the final, definitely watch the semi-finals. So I do love it on the national stage, both men and women. Neil Barrett: Hey. a man of more culture than Brandon Hooton. We'll give you that. We'll give you that. yeah, no, I it's funny. I was watching I went over to a friend's house yesterday to watch the the Canada game, just because it was the game that was on and and we w we had availability. so I went over there to watch it and I didn't realize it was a it was a knockout stage game until we like sat down and were watching it. It said round of thirty two up in the corner and I was like, wait, wait, what? I thought it was I thought it was the last group stage game. Jackson: Hehehehehe Yeah. Neil Barrett: But yeah, that that was that was fun. I was watching a I was watching a couple of the games today when I was at work, but I thought Japan was gonna pull out that that Brazil win. But I saw I saw the US is playing in primetime on Wednesday night. It's the first time they've ever played a prime time game in the US. Jackson: Yes, the eight o'clock game, yes. So I think I'm gonna do wings. I might see if some of the guys wanna come over. I do wanna say one other thing too. I saw the bracket as a circle on social media. I'll have to find it and send it to you. But it was the coolest looking thing I've ever seen. So we'll have to link that for everybody. Neil Barrett: That hurts my brain as a circle. Jackson: it was awesome. Neil Barrett: Yeah, that hurts my brain to think about. Like everything kind of almost almost like it was like a tunnel. Yeah, okay. Jackson: And it converged. Yeah, everything was, I don't know, it was rounded. Everything converged in the middle still on the trophy. It was beautiful. I think all brackets should be done in circles from here on out. So I'll have to send that to you. Neil Barrett: You listening, PL? Yeah, send that to me. That that sounds cool. But let's enough about the soccer. I mean, I'll talk all day about soccer. With that's fine with me, but let's let's talk some PLL. Move over to this weekend in San Diego, the Redwoods Homecoming. They split the weekend with their first game. They beat that, excuse me, they lost to Boston 15 to 12. 'Cause of course they did. Everyone decided that Boston was the worst team in the league. And I'm not even saying that they aren't, but of course when you're the worst team in the league, you beat the best team in the league, at least numerically. 'cause that's just the way that this stupid league works sometimes. So I I don't know I mean, I don't even I don't even know what to say about this game. I I've I feel like last week all we did was talk about how bad Boston is. And then and then they come out. And and I don't think I'm not I'm not convinced of anything otherwise. but if you are a Boston Cannons fan, I feel like you're now like, yeah. You know how many, you know how many messages we got that said Brandon and I don't know ball this week? Cause Jackson: Yeah. Yeah, uh-huh. Definitely strange to see Dylan Malloy, you know, off a seven goal performance that I'm unfortunately intimately familiar with. To only score one goal. I did see a great interview from Coach Holman. You know, he came to Owen Grant early in the week and said, hey, we're giving you the big guy this week. And I can't remember what it was a short clip. I can't remember what he was referencing, but somehow he had been slided in a social media clip the week before. And so apparently he was just pissed off and clearly played like that. I mean, that's a big dude. I'm not exactly sure if he's the second coming of John Grant Jr. He's a big dude that did whatever he wanted to Warren Jeffrey last week. So to go from seven goals and to assist nine points last week to the one goal, obviously the scout was there, the scheme was there, and Owen Grant just owned the matchup. Neil Barrett: I'm I'm glad you brought up junior because that was the thing that we d we weren't even trashing Dylan Malloy. We just said he w he we didn't think he was junior and we got several comments about how we don't know ball. And we were like, it wasn't even a take. Jackson: Well, and then they, and the league used the John Grant Jr. or maybe it was Joe Keegs or Dan or somebody that compared Brennan's goal late in the game, the one-handed right-hand flick to John Grant Jr. So I hesitate to throw around comparisons like that. But nevertheless, to hold a guy that had nine points last week to one this week is an accomplishment. Shout out to Owen Grant. was a heck of a game. Neil Barrett: Yeah. No, I that was It it's funny to say because they are clearly trying to make it a point to highlight his performance, but it it's the kind of performance that often gets overlooked. So it it's it's good to see that not being the case this time and him actually getting some some credit for that. I'm wondering does the does this change anything in your mind about? Boston is and and what they're capable of this year at all. Jackson: Not really. I see so many parallels of the archers in there. Obviously, you know, I feel like Brett Dobson is at a higher level than than cursed. But it's just new problems every week. And we'll get to the archers here in a little bit. you know, at points they couldn't score. I mean, it feels like they're they're reliant on Colter Macacy to have a huge game. Neil Barrett: Mm-hmm. Jackson: to have any chance of winning. But then you look at their defense, obviously they led up 12 goals. Chris Cavanaugh with two, Ryder Garnsey with two, and Malloy with one. I mean, that's five. Kind of an uncharacteristically bad game for Mikey Bane, who has been pretty great this year. We'll talk about the second game. Dance in a tweet, see you Mikey Bane after Ryder abused Blaze. in the second game, they didn't let one person decide the game. So they played very good team defense. Let's see what Kirst was in goal. 55 % did enough. You know, they were 44 % at the strike. But yeah, kind of like I said, they had a huge game from culture, Mackesy, another big game for Brian Kelly, Marcus Holman with the hat trick. I mean, everybody doing their jobs. But I just don't think that culture Mackesy is gonna score six points every single game. If he does crown the MVP, great. I just don't think that happens. Neil Barrett: Yeah, no, I'm I I don't know how anyone watched that game and felt like felt like, yeah, th they've turned this around. It felt like it felt way more like a a statement about California not not playing well and not playing up to their standard than it did about Boston doing anything. I mean, I I still think I I still watch this game and I think, yeah, you and you and Utah are battling it out to be number one pick at this point. And I don't know how that changes at all. maybe, maybe they'll prove me wrong in the second half of the season. Great on them. But there was nothing about this game that felt like they had figured something out. I I I like I I love Colter Makasi. I I really am really enjoying Jack Rodneri, the way that he's played so far. Jackson: Okay. Neil Barrett: He's looked so good and I think he could do very good things in this offense. I think Brian Kelly had some some really good moments in this game. But like you said, I just I don't have any faith in their ability to do this with any kind of consistency. And I felt like watching this game, I felt like so much of it was California not playing up to the level that they had been playing. and and I should be somewhat fair, as we just talked about Owen Grant, some of that is probably Boston making some guys disappear. It's also probably some on them not, you know, hitting shots that they might normally have or whatever. but I also didn't feel like Dylan Dylan Ward had an amazing game. I don't I don't think that he's, you know, at fault for the loss or anything. It it just it felt like the whole team had a bit of a down game. which is something that I feel like we have seen several times from homecoming teams. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: in in the first game of the weekend and I don't know what that is. I know a lot's been made about and we'll get to the second game in a minute, but a lot has got been made about teams in the second game versus the first game and how they're undefeated now in the second game. and and as far as I know, the only team that's won the first one was was New York. Is that right? Jackson: think they're the well, no, I think we played Maryland first and theirs, And lost, Archer's lost. Yes. Yeah. Maryland went 2-0 in their homecoming as well. They beat the Archers. Or I'm sorry, no, they beat the Canons first and then the Archers. I don't know why the app has the Saturday games first, but yes, they beat Boston first and then they beat the Archers in the second game. Neil Barrett: Okay, all right. All right. So I'm just I'm that's just All right, so not not a not a point necessarily worth Too much salt, but it just it seems so weird to me that teams just aren't you would think they would come out, they'd be fresh. They game one would be the the game. And it seems to be that teams are coming out more flat. but interesting. I guess we can I'll let I'll let you decide. You're the you're the you're the guest host. Do you want to you want to move over to the Redwood second game or are we gonna go in in order here? Jackson: I think we go into order. think we gotta save the OT finish for last. Neil Barrett: Okay. All right. That's fair. That's that's fair. So the next game that is not the next game. Yeah, was. Just kidding. Just kidding. I'm getting my days all confused. You know why? Because it's West Coast, right? So the next game. The sun was still up, right? The next game is Outlaws Whips, right? And the sun was still up. And so I'm feeling like, wait, that couldn't have been the that couldn't have been Friday night. Like I'm thinking of that the clip you were just talking about of Brennan hitting that shot. And I'm like, no, the sun was so there that wasn't all right. Anyway, let's talk about the game. The Outlaws beat the whip snakes 13 to 7. They now sit atop the Western Conference at four and two. Denver had all four Tawaraton winners, the Teforaton or whatever whatever you guys want to call them. Jackson: You Neil Barrett: For the first time this season. And you know what? They're gonna get a lot of the plot. It's for me, the story of this game was that defense. That defense was so good. I mean, just absolutely shut down that Whip Snakes offense. Jackson: Yeah, no points for TJ Malone, no points for Brandow, one assist for Penel. Spalina had his three goals and an assist. Hicock keeps reminding people that he's just an ageless wonder with two goals. Neil Barrett: I feel like heacks that dude that every time you're ready to write him off, he pops up and he has like two or three games where he plays really well and you're like, okay, I guess I guess this is who he is. And then he goes back to not really doing anything and you forget and you're like, Okay, I'm ready to write him off. And then he pops back up again. You're like, What? Sorry, keep going. Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then, and then my, you know, before the weekend, my MVP front runner was, was Aiden Carroll and one goal for him to, mean, they just, you know, own the matchups, know, Spallina, like I said, got his four points, but, um, yeah, just an incredible game from, from that defense. Um, a lot, a lot of talent just all over the field on that team. You know, I love, I'm a huge short stick defensive midfielder guy, Ryan Tarapanco's. one of if not the best. And I think did he did he score two or was that last week? Neil Barrett: I actually don't know. He scored A2, Gotcha. Jackson: Yes, he scored a two. So, yeah, so he's, he just is awesome. But yeah, mean, Pesano is great. Mike Manley, I saw an awesome hit on Rob Pinnell from him. You know, obviously, you know, Logan Mcnaney is a fantastic goalie. You know, we hear clean save, clean save, clean save all the time, but he does and gets them going in transition and they have some of the best transition in the game with Pesano and Neil Barrett: Yeah. Jackson: and TeraFenko. So just a fun team to watch, dangerous team. You know, the Teforitan scored 10 goals, 10 out of the 13 scoring points were from those four guys. You know, the other was a Doughton Young goal and then the aforementioned two pointer. So. Neil Barrett: The two from Yeah. Yeah, and and and it and what's crazy to me too is I thought for large portions of that game that the four of them looked out of sync. You know, I they still haven't figured out who's playing where. and and who and Jackson: lot to be said there and Neil Barrett: And in a way, I guess that's kind of a strength of this team is that like they have options and and I I I later in that game I was thinking. One thing I've never seen Sudo do is I've never seen him have an have an issue with, all right, this isn't working. Let's let's try something else. He's not one of those dudes that's gonna be like, no, keep going at it and it make it work. You know, like if it's if it's not working, he'll move it around. You know, I think I if I remember correctly, Brennan started at attack and then he at later was coming out of the box, or maybe maybe it was the other way around. Maybe he cut he started out of the box. He started out of the box because they were saying that JB10 had was having some calf soreness or something. So they thought not having him come sprinting out of the box was the better option, just having him on the field. but then I felt like they I felt like Brennan wasn't in rhythm with that. That's one of my issues, just as a guy that has watched Brennan play for so long. People want to say, well, yeah, but he he was, you know, the the World Games MVP in whatever that was, 24. running out of the box. And I'm like, yeah, but that's because he was playing with Michael Sowers and Rob Pinnell. And like it was right, he was dodging a shorty, exactly. and I'm like, j just because you can do it and and not for nothing. National play is not the same level as as this is. Even even going up against Canada, like it's just not the same thing as doing it. Jackson: Yeah, he was dodging a shorty. Neil Barrett: week in week out in the in this league and and like you said it yeah he's not he's not gonna get that being said he did he was getting a shorty because they were they were switching but but they could have done that from attack too like they he they could have gotten that switch on an attack and and so later he was running more attack later in the game and I still think I still think JB 10 is at his most dangerous flying out of the box Jackson: percent. Neil Barrett: Or, you know, putting him at X and either way, just letting him take a full head of steam at somebody. so but I I liked seeing that they they they're not afraid to move guys around. and you know, if they get any kind of consistency out of that, like I just right right here, right now, I I don't know who who's challenging them for this title. Jackson: I don't even know who's matching up with if you have all four of those guys healthy and you get a goal from Dalton Young and You know, I mean Graham Bundy had zero points in this game, you know If you start moving the ball, well, somebody's gonna lose him and he's gonna kill you from two Evan Plunkett no points, you know the guy you traded your entire draft for Neil Barrett: Yep. Yeah. Jackson: And he still convincingly won this game. I hate to think what might happen in 2028 when Chris Kavanaugh is a free agent. And if you can keep that core and add him, we're going to have to have a collective bargaining agreement. We're going to have to Chris Paul reversal trade. It's not going to be fair. Neil Barrett: Ha ha. Yeah. Yeah. They gotta veto veto some trades and the collective bargaining the collective bargaining agreement just says there can there can be no more than two Kavanaughs on on any team. Or no no more than one Kavanaugh. Yeah, no No super teams. You can you can have you Yeah, they should write in that you can no longer have more than three Tawariton a w award winners on one team and Jackson: Yes, veto free agency, you know. Yeah, no super teams. Yeah. Yeah. Neil Barrett: Well, and you know what you know what's funny to me too is obviously there there's some things and and actually we'll get into this a little bit later. There's there's some things happening in college, but like I I could see a world where Sean Light falls to to eight. Like that's not crazy to I don't he probably won't, but like it it's not crazy for a pole to be picked eighth. Imagine they have five to warm award winners. Like Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: This team's just gonna get i more and more insane. or could, you know. but but yeah, no, I I I genuinely don't know who can who can keep up with them when I I think coming into the season, I think we all kind of thought that that New York and and Denver were the two favorites. And as of yet, New York has not lived up to that. And no one else has really stepped into those shoes. I I think, and we'll get into to their second game. I I I think, and I'll I guess test how you feel on this. I I think I would say California is probably solidly that number two team, but it feels like there's there's even a decent gap between those two teams. Jackson: Yeah. Well, especially if they're going to play the rest of year without Chris Faken and Cole Castner. I mean, they've played well to this point. mean, obviously 15 goals against Boston is not ideal and they gave up, I don't know, was it 13 or 12 against Carolina 13. But their offense is great. I think Sam English is the next Zach Currier. Neil Barrett: Thirteen. Jackson: You look at him, what he does on the face off wings and how much of an advantage that is for him to not be a liability on defense. And then for him to be a weapon in the 32 second shot clock. I like the pieces there. I think if they can get healthy, I think that's a really, really solid, scary team. I wear orange and blue glasses all the time, but I think if we can stop. Neil Barrett: So good. Jackson: I mean, it's like I said, it's new issues every week. know, last week it was the defense and not being able to stop Dylan Malloy. This week was penalties was the LSM's being atrocious. and, but I think the offense is getting there. I'm optimistic that we might see Grant Amen on the back half of the season. I'm loving what I'm seeing from Ryan Steins. Sam King is finding his stride a little bit. You know, if we can get Neil Barrett: Those penalties were rough. Jackson: Trey LeClair going, we can get Mac O'Keefe going. Connor Fields is good for two or three points a game. That's team that's tough to beat too. But they just haven't put it all together yet. The Carolina game was very well put together and we haven't seen anything close to that since. Neil Barrett: we'll come back to the archers. Before we get to the archers, we we we've kind of put the outlaws up there. Where are the whips now? Because I think two weeks ago, I think we all thought maybe they were the California level team, the the number two, but decidedly, but but still kind of that that cream of the crop. And then they've lost back to back games. Losing to Denver, I don't think anyone is is really poo-pooing you for that. But then losing to New York, who's certainly a talented team, but has not played up to their level this season. And I don't know that anyone felt like I won't say anyone, people did. I didn't feel like that game was about New York. I thought that game was about Maryland. just completely letting their foot off the gas and just not being able to get it back going. I mean, they were up 10-3 and and should have just been easily able to coast to a victory, even against a team against New York, who was probably gonna battle back to some degree, you know, if if they close the gap to, to three or four goals, you're like, okay, yeah, that, that I expect. Jackson: So Neil Barrett: But to come all the way back and win that game and not just not just win, if I remember correctly, they won by two or three. Like they completely flipped that game. and and so now and then they follow that up with this performance, which again, I don't think losing to the Outlaws is bad. I don't even necessarily think losing by a decent amount is is all that bad. But like they just never really felt like they could do much of anything in this game, and like you, like you perfectly laid out. Joey Spilina was the one bright spot in this game for that team. And I'm just wondering where where they are now. Are they are they still a good team that have had, you know, two kind of kind of down weeks? Are they somewhere in the middle just and and just happen to to kind of have been a little better at the beginning of the season? And now we're seeing who kind of they really are somewhere in the middle, or like what's the deal? Jackson: Well, let me take you even further back now, obviously they had a big, big break from their homecoming weekend. Then there was the Carolina weekend. There was a league bye. And so that may have explained a little bit of the New York game, but you look at their second game in homecoming, they beat the archers eight to five now still orange and orange and blue tended glasses, but it took a Herculean effort from Emmett Carroll. He 72 % in cage. I mean, You had, you had TJ Malone with three goals. Outside of that, you had Aiden Carroll at one and one, Joey Spallina to assist. I mean, I don't know if you're, you're really thrilled with that game either. Sure. Your defense played well, goalie played well. that I think down the stretch, I mean, you will see in a couple of weeks, archers play them again. you know, how, how good do you feel about that game? So now you've had three games in a row. Now we're talking about over the course of. a month now because we're talking about a May 30th game. Today is June 30th. But I don't love the three performances they've put up in the past month. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Yeah. And and and you you're also right that while they maybe didn't play poorly, the archers, especially at that point, were so disjoint. Like it's not like they've they've put it all together again, that Carolina game aside. It's not like they've really put it all together much since then. But I like you're saying, they're certainly better now than they were then. And you still like didn't con it's not like you convincingly beat them. You you did enough to beat a not very good team. So even in even in winning that game, it it's not like they they were setting the league on fire. so you know, I you're not you're not wrong. Jackson: I say the last month's worth of games. The game against Boston was phenomenal. They scored 17 goals, held that offense to 10. Good for them. But their last three games, not exactly the team that you want to see. Obviously, we're talking about Boston, who just came off a great win. Still probably on the outside looking in for the rest of the league. So how good do you feel about that game, beating up on that team, and then playing three games against teams that we would probably is there a step above right now. Neil Barrett: I we we keep talking about the archers and being like, we'll talk about the archers in a minute, but one more, one more question before we actually talk about them. Right now, and I I know you got the the orange and blue tinted glasses. Right now, those two teams play, Boston and and and Utah. Are you confident in that? I won't ask you, would they win? Because I know you'll say yes. Are you confident that they win that game? Jackson: No, but I'm sure because we're going to create some other new problem, but distinct edge at the faceoff stripe, distinct edge in the goalie room. You know, they probably throw Grant on fields, I guess. You know, I've liked what we've been doing, kind of rotating King and Steins at the right-handed attack spot. You know, still need to figure out what we're going to do with Mack. Ethan Rall is a phenomenal player at the LSM. Neil Barrett: Right. Jackson: and they've got good short sticks. I would say it's probably a rock fight. I would maybe say like a 11-9 archers win just because of that edge on the face off stripe. But if we played neutral site, I would say archers heavily juiced at minus one and a half. The money line's probably a lot closer. Neil Barrett: Yeah, yeah. That's fair. and and so to Yeah. Well and and and to your point, if you're if you're the whips and you're looking back at at that Boston game, like are you really that im impressed by beating arguably the worst team in the league? And again, I think I think even you with your b blue and orange tinted glasses would say Jackson: But that's just the parody of this league. Neil Barrett: Those two are the bottom two. And then there's a there's a pretty decent gap between those next few teams, at least right now. Again, maybe, maybe another month from now or two months from now, we're having a totally different conversation. But at least standing right here, right now, I think you'd say those two teams are pretty comfortably the the bottom tier. And so, you know, when you when you look back at at their at the the whip snakes wins, it's like are Are we really that impressed by those wins? And so so then so then now you see they've they their last two games and it's like, okay, who is this whip snakes team? Because again, I think two weeks ago, I think we thought they were pretty good. And now I just don't know that that's the case. Jackson: Right. Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting to see how the back half of the schedule shakes out. Obviously you play each team in your conference twice and then you also have to play two other teams from the other conference twice. So, you know, do the whips have to play the outlaws twice again? Do they have to play? I mean, I know they play the archers again. So who's that second game? You know, I think, and you know, this is, I hate to be a conference guy, but I think the Western conference is a little more stout than the Eastern Conference just looking at it right now. You know, I was going to say the Archers, you know, get to play all four teams in the East on the back half of the schedule. Then we play Denver at Denver in their first game, which bodes well for us. And then we play the Chaos to finish the season. You know, so what does the WIPs back half of the schedule look like? And that'll be really telling of kind of where they finish. and standings. Neil Barrett: They play They play Carolina. They play California. They play Utah. Denver. all these weekends are so messed up. Boston. And Philly. That's that's their back half of the schedule. So Jackson: So how good do you feel about playing that schedule? I mean, like I said, I feel like the West is a little more stout this year. You got to play all four teams again. And then, you you get the softer Boston team a little bit, who knows what they look like down the stretch. And then you get a Philadelphia team, it sounds like to end the season, who shows a lot of promise on offense. Yeah, and Philly. So. Neil Barrett: In Philly. And like we talked about earlier, it's game one of the the the double header. So that maybe maybe that helps them. I don't know. But but no I that's a that's a good point. you know, reading through that that roster or that schedule. Jackson: Sure. Neil Barrett: Let's a let's assume Utah State's who they are right now. You you'd feel confident if you're the whips in that game. Maybe you feel confident in that Boston game. I don't know that you feel very confident in the rest of those those games. So Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. And now I think there's going to be teams that finish at 500 that make the playoffs. think, you know, with a 12 game schedule. So I think that's the mark. That's what I'm looking at for Utah. You know, it looks like we're going to kind of be Jocelyn Carolina kind of down the stretch. That's great that we get to end with that. You know, it could be kind of like last year where, you know, they could have playoff implications. But yeah, I mean, think, I think you've got to think you got to go 500 to make the playoffs. Neil Barrett: for sure. Jackson: which isn't my favorite thing in the world. But in an 18 league, a 12 game season, that's kind of the reality of it. But yeah, that's gotta be kind of your goal. You gotta go six and six to make the playoffs. Neil Barrett: I'm I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna be surprised if if there's some there's some sub 500 teams that that make it. Not maybe not a ton, but one or one or two. just I mean who who's Boston gonna be favored against the rest of the season? You know? not that they're gonna make a playoff, but like I I feel like there's there's a a handful of teams there, but we'll I guess we'll see. Let's let's move over to your archers. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: They fall to two and four with the loss to the Philadelphia Water Dogs. eight minutes of penalties. I have a note, I and I should have double checked this. I have a note that that was the most penalty time the Archers have ever had in a game. Jackson: I'm sure it's probably the most any team has ever had in the league. We love to set fun records like that. We have the most two-pointer scored against us in the Boston two-party. I remember that game very well. But yeah, mean, and there was a lot of talk, we're the most penalized team in the league, but it was stupid penalties. mean, the first one, Mitch Adonam, and we killed it. And then we had another penalty, and then you get the two from Collison. Neil Barrett: Stupid penalties, yeah. Jackson: You know, if we, I'm not gonna say we ever go without a penalty, but if we do, we win this game 10-7, you know, feeling great. And then the other thing is, is if we can stop switching shorties on the CJ Cursed and maybe loan him to three goals, we still win the game 10-9, even with the penalties. I mean, it's just, it's infuriating to watch this team. Neil Barrett: I w I will say I thought the I thought the Archers defense man down man down unit specifically handled it very well. By and large. By and large. I know I I I know it there were I don't I don't think they were perfect, but they by and large, I that that that Mitchell Dunham penalty was a two minute non releaseable, like a minute into the game. And you thought and and it just felt like Jackson: Yeah. Yes. Neil Barrett: crap. The Water Dogs man up unit is so good. They're gonna score two or three here. They're gonna take off. And the archers are never gonna get it. They did. Jackson: Yeah, they looked horrible. And they looked, I mean, they looked like they had never played the cross before. I mean, just passing around the edge, just kind of waiting for something to happen and nothing did. I mean, the archer scored the first goal of the goal, first goal of the game on the first shot they took by Bo Pettersson. Um, and they even went up two and then we give up another dumb penalty. I think it was a can wire slash and then they hit the two, we go into the second quarter tied at two, two. Um, you know, jump back out again, another dumb penalty and end up going into halftime 5-4 and just never really, never really had control of the game. You know, a lot of bright spots on offense, Ryan Steins making everybody, I'm not sure I said this anywhere, but I didn't know, you know, I wasn't familiar with Ryan Steins' game. And... Neil Barrett: What's funny is like Brandon and I were like because Denver plays Utah and and you know he shoots den a lot of Denver games and stuff and Air Force games Air Force and Utah are in the same conference. Like he had seen them. I had seen Utah several times because Duke plays them every year. Like we were, and even we were like, I thought it was a it was a good pick in that. You know, 'cause it was he was third round, fourth round. Jackson: those first pick at the second one. Neil Barrett: was he was he that high? geez. Anyway, I thought I thought he it was a may maybe it maybe first pick of the second round is a is a little bit of a of a jump. I thought, okay, they need some offensive help. He can he can do a job. I'm not gonna lie. I I I expected he would come in, maybe do a job. He'd be one of those guys that that's one of those kind of lower guys that comes in, he's young. He just got off of the field, you know, and would come in, turn some heads, and then would would maybe be out of the league in a in a in two years or wh whatever. and maybe and maybe that still happens. There's still there's still time for that to happen. but I never thought as good as I thought he would be and and he's a North Carolina boy, so I got even more reason to like be in his corner. And I never, I never thought he would. Jackson: Mm-hmm. Neil Barrett: Do the things that he's doing. I feel like every week he he looks more and more comfortable. He's he's doing more and more for this team. I think him and Sam King have have not necessarily a partnership because it's not like they're necessarily assisting each other or anything, but they just they they seem to play well in the offense together. you know, maybe he should have been your number one overall. Jackson: Yeah. Well, and he did have an awesome assist to King in this game. Right there, he was at the top of the key, threw it down right to the crease. The ball couldn't, was Will Manny-esque. Couldn't have been in his cross for more than a second. It was beautiful. But then I really did some deep dive. Sam, or excuse me, Ryan Steins. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Jackson: Points per game, two, three. We had a little misstep with zero. Two, three, four. 14 points in the first half. The Archer's rookie scoring record is 24, set by Sam King last year. Now, he's got an extra game, or extra two games, but on great pace to break that has been awesome. I think part of the logic was, he's already in Utah, plans to be in Utah. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Jackson: I'm not sure that the switch to saying, y'all got to live in market isn't coming sooner rather than later. So it's a great pick in that aspect as well. And his ability to do what he does on the field is just a bonus. And I will say, I don't think anybody expected Will Schaller to make it through the second round. And so we got him at the first pick of the third round. And so really, if you were to switch those same result, I think Our archers fans would have understood that, been happy with that. Maybe Steins isn't available at the first pick of the third round. You look at the guys that got drafted after him. Matt Collison was still on the board at the time. I'm trying to think of other guys. think like Will Donovan was kind of later in the second round as well. Yeah, wasn't on anybody's big board at nine for sure. Neil Barrett: Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Jackson: Chris Bates has never been afraid to go with his guy. And it's definitely panned out well. So, but yeah, mean, four points from Steins, three from King. Like I said, if we cut penalties and hold CJ Curse a little bit more in check, we feel entirely different about this game because we win and probably win by more than one. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Well, and what I what I was starting to say earlier that I I'm just now realizing I never actually finished. The the hard the hardest part I thought about the penalties wasn't even so much the penalties for themselves. Cause again, I felt like that man down defense played pretty well, especially considering how much they were down. The the biggest issue I thought was just like the offense couldn't get in any kind of rhythm. Jackson: Thank Neil Barrett: There was so the ball was on the other end of the field so much because of all of these penalties and and stuff. And and that was the thing. Anytime it felt like maybe there you were starting to get a little bit of momentum, there'd be some kind of and I think there's a difference between not all penalties are created equal. And so many of these penalties were just stupid penalties, like completely unnecessary penalties. Jackson: Yeah. 100%. Neil Barrett: Penalties, not just like those things that you just kind of pick up in in the the flow of the game or whatever. Just like the the Dunham one at the beginning, like just stupid penalty. The the Sisselberger one on Zach Courier. Stupid's probably a little bit harsh because I don't think he was trying to and and Zach's head was down, but it was just it was just like, why even hit him? Like Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: Like what do I just I don't know. It so many of them just felt so dumb. And like you said, there's there's a potential for that to go a completely different way if they're even if they're even slightly more disciplined. Like I'm like you said, I'm not even saying n there are zero penalties, but like if we're just if there's half of those penalties, that game could have been different. and then of course, obviously, you know. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: You gotta get a hand in CJ Kirstrays like that dude Jackson: Yeah, well, and it's it's it's just two games in a row. Not that we necessarily shot ourselves in the foot, but the games could have been extremely different. know, Mason Woodward hits the side of the goal 10 seconds into the game last week. You know, could have could have gone up two to nothing in that game. And then, you know, we're a minute and change into this game. And I have no problem with setting the tone. You know, if that if that's your game plan, say, hey, you're if you're going to come in here, you're gonna get beat up. I have no problem with that. You can't do it to the head though. I mean, you have to have a little more wherewithal to say, hey, you if I'm gonna do it, you know, maybe the official needs to be a little bit more turned around, you know, whatever it is, you know. Neil Barrett: Right. Right. Well, you you talked about that Mike Manley hit earlier. Like that thing was that thing was like Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Like that was that was how you set the tone and and and clean up the the the trash in and around it was a little bit farther out from the crease, but like in that area of like you come in here, we're gonna deal with you without drawing a penalty. And and again, again, we t we talk about the the stupidity of the play is Jackson: Yeah, that was clean. That was what this hit. Neil Barrett: Not even so much that he hit him and not even so much that he drew a penalty. It's that it was like so clearly late, high, you know, hands apart, stick like it was it was like everything they teach you not to do. You know, if if he just kind of if he just kind of like stepped in, hit him a little hard or whatever, and drew, you know, a one-minute kind of like cross check or or whatever, you're like, okay, cool. Like you said, maybe, maybe we're setting the tone here, we're we're we're picking up a a penalty. But such a such a bad penalty that puts you locked in two minutes. I mean, thank goodness, like I said, the the water dogs didn't just score two or three in that in that period and they looked completely inept themselves. And we spent this whole time talking about the archers. This is part of the reason why, as good as Philly looks at times, I have very little faith in them to make a run deep into the playoffs. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: Because as often as they look like world beaters, they oft at the same amount of time they spend looking completely inept at all aspects of the game. So, like, you know, as good as as good as Kenny Brouwer and Gavin Adler and Marcus Hudgens are capable of looking and they can shut you down for 20 minutes, they can also get scored on like that. You know, they'll put up or they'll get scored five times in in four minutes. Jackson: So Neil Barrett: You know, like it it c they just swing so wildly back and forth. So, you know, again, th back to what we were saying, thank goodness that was one of those pendulum swings where they didn't look good. Otherwise this game could have been out of hand early. Jackson: Yep. But it's a team to be excited about with the Water Dogs. mean, was there entire midfield rookies? mean, was. Jack Hanna is not a rookie. But it's. Neil Barrett: Isn't yeah, Jack Hannah's not and then they they have they have one second year player, don't they? Or did I make that no, you know who the second year player is? It's CJ. so yeah, it's like Jackson: Yeah, so it's Yago, it's Lewis, it's Collison, it's Hannah, and I guess Courier technically was an offensive midfielder, which he, I mean, killed us down the stretch. He's phenomenal and I wish he was on our team. Neil Barrett: Well and I mean that Jackson: And he didn't even take the last face off, which I thought that I'm like, Oh great. You know, we got to go send this out here, even though they violated and Zach Kurier is just going to muck it up and, you know, we're not going to have a chance. You know, it was Matt Witcher out there. And of course Zach Kurier comes running in off the wing and scoops the ground ball and that's it. Neil Barrett: Yeah. I mean that's what that's what he does. That's what he does. I just I d still just can't believe you you mentioned that you had Aiden Carroll as your MVP front runner. Did you say coming into last week or coming into this week? Jackson: Coming into this week. Neil Barrett: End of this week. At this point, it's it's gotta be CJ, right? Jackson: Correct. Neil Barrett: I don't know I don't I don't even know who else who maybe that's the question. Who else is is in there right now? obviously we s we we still got half a season, but Jackson: I think it's. Yeah, I think it's one of his running mates, Michael Sowers. You know, I don't want to say quietly had three assists. I mean, he was all over the place. And, you know, he didn't shoot the ball well. He was 0-4-8 shooting, but, you know, had three big assists. I think you probably say Carroll's still in there, just on merit of what he's done through the first five weeks. And then I think, you know, Connor Schallemberger is still up there, you know, really put the team on his back in that New York. Um, weekend, I don't know. There's not, not a whole lot of other people that come to mind. think, you know, once we see Pat Kavanaugh, um, healthy and back in action, you know, you know, five points this week is, is, is tough to argue with. Um, but right now just the way it stands, I think that's probably my four. Neil Barrett: ironically, I I looked this up while you were talking. There is another name that has the stats and especially after this weekend, has I think the stature that we didn't we didn't mention. And I didn't even think about him. Like it didn't even enter my my thought until I saw his name and I was like, man, how do we miss that? Jackson: Is it Cavanaugh or Malloy? Neil Barrett: It's Malloy. He's he's tied with Coulter Mackesee for first in points. right. I I didn't I didn't I know he's been good. I didn't know he had been that good. And then of course, when he plays well, like you said, game one, one point. When he plays well, I they're so much better, like significantly better. Jackson: Yeah. Okay, well. Yeah. Neil Barrett: The the other the other thing that sucks though is a lot of the guys I feel like like I think Brett Dobson could be. It's just the I don't think the Archers are gonna be good enough. Right. And then and then is I'm gonna s I'm gonna say it again. Dylan Ward, why is Dylan Ward not being talked about in the in these conversations? I guess probably because of game one, he's fallen slightly. Jackson: gonna get buried. Yeah. Neil Barrett: But he's one percentage point behind Brad Dobson. So, you know, also I I don't think you can argue against him after after game two, which we'll head back up to in just a second. I had I had one more thing and then we'll stop talking about the archers. Everyone's like, man, we're talking about the archers a lot today. I'm wondering how you feel. The the number one pick conversation is so exhausted. But Is it you or is it JB that runs the ETQ page? Jackson: He does the Instagram, I do the Twitter. Neil Barrett: Okay. All right. So then it was him that messaged me. I know I never know who it is. I think he's messaged me several times on there. but I I the number one pick in Aiden Maguire thing has gotten so exhausting. And I'm a and I am on record saying as a Duke fan, as an Aiden Maguire fan, this was a bad pick. But we have now gotten to the point. Where the only time we mention Aiden Carroll's name is when he gets beat. It's the only time we talk about him. It's the only time we show him. And I'm like. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: I almost feel bad that he got put in this position because he's still a rookie. He's still a rookie. He's still a short stick defensive midfielder. Most short stick defensive midfielders are gonna get beat. Like it it's it it's what happens. Even even the best short stick you were talking about Ryan Terrafinko. He gets beat. He gets beat. Like it it happened, especially. Jackson: percent. Yeah. Neil Barrett: when you're going up against CJ Kurst. You know, like he he he gets beat. It happens. And that that one clip of him getting beat by CJ Kirst is going to be all over the internet this weekend. Or it was already. And I'm just like, I almost I almost wish Chris Bates wouldn't have picked him just because it feels almost unfair the the expectations and and like level that has been put on him having been The the first short stick defensive midfielder ever to be taken number one. and I just I don't know. I I don't even I don't have a question. I don't, I just I felt like I would be remiss if if we didn't talk because I was noticing it this week. I was noticing it the last few weeks. The only time that we talk about it. No one's ever showed a clip of him playing good defense. No one has ever showed a a clip of him doing anything other than getting beat. And it's Every week now we're showing clips of Aiden McGuire getting beat. In a in a way that just feels very unfair to him. Jackson: Yeah, well, I definitely want to start this by saying go back and look at the last three games, our opponents midfield scoring. Pretty nonexistent. Now, most of that is due to the fact that I think maybe I was very sure of this before this weekend. I think Tevlin and Terafinco both had awesome weeks. Terafinco scored a two. I think Teflon might have scored a goal or had an assist or something. Before this week, it was a two horse race between Piper Bond and Bo Pettersson for short stick defensive midfielder of the year. Like I said, not as confident in that. I still think they're the front runners. But go back and look at the midfield scoring. mean, it... maybe three or four goals a game. that I mean, yeah, both getting beat piper's getting beat. Connor Mars getting beat now poor Connor Maher had to go garden Dillon Molloy out of the box two weeks ago. So that's, that's not one that I hold against him. Because Dillon Molloy was just that was late, like in the third quarter or fourth quarter, he's just already in this flow state, you know, he just got to a spot and he's just way bigger than Connor is so don't have that one against him at all. But yeah, I mean, I think by and large, the short stick room has been awesome, has been as advertised. I still like the pick because I don't think we're doing what we set out to do with the four short sticks. think, and McGuire maybe a little bit, I feel like I see a little bit more as being guilty of it. Like we'll hang an offensive guy from the other team on defense and then he'll run off. And I think the whole thought process there is we have to go in transition. And then when we don't score a transition goal, one of the guys has to stay on and then we have to dodge the opponent's offensive midfielder and we're not doing that. And so I think in theory it should still be a great way of playing lacrosse and we're just not doing it the way that we have set out to do it. Neil Barrett: Well I don't I don't love that that plan, but whatever, that's the plan. I I I do think that that's It it's such a weird thing because again, I I watched Ada McGuire for four years at Duke. He's certainly capable of pushing in transition and scoring or assisting on his own. But there's something it feels like there's something I I and I I don't I don't have any inside information. I'm not even saying this is true, but like when I watch it, there's just something that feels almost as if Doing it by design doesn't work for him for some reason. Like it it has to be this like thing that that he takes advantage of or whatever. but Jackson: Sure. Neil Barrett: I don't know. I like I said, I don't know what the question go ahead. Jackson: Well, and I think I think part of it, too, is that he hasn't scored a goal yet. He has one assist against Carolina. So we haven't seen the offensive prowess that, you know, kind of was was, you know, harped on in addition to him being a fantastic athlete, fantastic cover man. You know, that that's part of it. And so the only highlights of him to show are the ones that are not highlights. They're lowlights. And so I think as soon as he scores, you know, I've long said is, you know, the game that we get four points from the rope unit, you know, everybody will be sorry. Well, that was against the Redwoods last week and they were not sorry. But I think if we can consistently get two or three points from the rope unit and also play good defense, you know, I think, I think some of those conversations will die out a little bit. unpopular opinion, maybe this is not an unpopular opinion, but kind of out of left field opinion, I would have rather had, know, not that I'm unhappy with Bo, but if we were going to take somebody else, I would, my pick today would be Chappalungbo. I think we need the midfield scoring as opposed to what Spallina does. Neil Barrett: I st I still think it w it was Spilina. That being said, Chad Palumbo also I think makes a ton of sense. and obviously the way that he has come into the league, and just the the one thing I'll give Chad Palumbo over Joey Spilina is that dude's clutch gene is at like Level 99. Whenever some whenever they need a play, that dude steps up and makes a play. and Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: yeah, I just that's that's you know what, that's a good transition into the final PLL game of the weekend that saw the Redwoods and Chaos play. I don't is it recency bias? Is it recency bias to s okay. All right. that's what I wanted to say, but I was like, is it recency? Is there is there something else? I feel like there was a game a couple weeks ago. Although you know what, maybe now that I think about it, maybe it was a WLL game that we were calling game of the season. so maybe we can diff differentiate that way. The Ashley Humphrey game. Yeah. I I think you're right. I I think it was that game. Jackson: It's the game of the season so far, for sure. was the Ashley Humphrey game, the charm that I can't remember who else. Neil Barrett: but that saw the redwoods pull out a 14 to 13 win in overtime dylamloy hit the game winner that that overtime period was tense i think both teams had had three shots on goal five of them were saved and then the and then the dylam alloy one was not i will say yeah and i i will say i was i was really disappointed and i Jackson: I'd. Yeah, yeah, it was tough to breathe. Neil Barrett: I actually watched the overtime again. I was I was really disappointed in the shots that the chaos took. Not that the shots themselves, not that they were like bad shooting positions or anything. They were getting to spots, and it was the shots they were taking that weren't very good. two of them were six-side high. none of them changed plane whatsoever. the the most Dylan Ward had to move. Was the Chad Palumbo shot where he had to reach across his face like this? And I'm not entirely sure that one wasn't going over the net anyway, just based on on where he kind of snagged it. but that was that was probably my my disappointment. I I'm not a chaos fan, but I'm not a Redwoods fan. And I I do Anyone that has listened to the Runout for a while knows we are we are all in on Chad Palumbo. so I was I was really kind of hoping that they would pull that out, but they didn't. And Jackson: Yeah, as an archers fan, I'm an archers fan first. would think a second, think I would describe myself as an anyone but chaos fan. I'm a South Carolina guy. I go to homecoming every year. I love it. I think the world of Steven Brooks and I think they've got some great players. I'm all in on Chaplumba like I just said. Neil Barrett: And Jackson: Was I rooting for the Redwoods? No. As an Archer span, looking at standings, yes. Did I thoroughly enjoy the entire game? Yes, I did. So I guess we'll end on that bit of positivity there. Yeah, I mean, you want to talk about somebody else who has a clutch gene is Chris Cavanaugh. I mean, down the stretch, those two goals he scored in the fourth quarter were incredible. think, you know, the, the chaos had a really dumb penalty by Jack Rowlett late in the game where he just kind I think it was Josh Bokker, Bokker sell Bokker, Raul Bokker sell. Um, um, and he just kind of pushed him over cause he's bigger than him. Um, and I'm just sitting there kind of like, all right. Neil Barrett: Buck or so, I think. I think. Jackson: Yeah, can't do that. But yeah, a phenomenal game. mean, there were several points where the goalies just looked like they were absolutely locked in. Like there was, you know, they were shooting on box schools and they were just saving everything. And the game had it all. I don't think the pick at the end was moving. I do think that the Chaos Defender pushed the picker into Dylan Molloy's man. Neil Barrett: Yeah. Плас Jackson: loved the interview at the end. Maybe could do without the language, but it was raw and you know. Neil Barrett: I'll say what I two things based on what you just said. One, I think any movement, I I think he probably was pushed into him, but I also think that movement was on that line. I don't know what the I don't know what the rule is. Like in my mind, a moving pick is moving laterally, like you're moving into the way. In my mind, if you're moving toward if you're moving in this plane as opposed to this plane. plane. this is really good podcast mechanics here you know doing something visually and not describing it but in my mind moving this way it isn't a moving pick anyway but also I think he was pushed and you know I'm not even sure how much he was really moving at the point of impact anyway but whatever. So I'm with you there. I I even though I was pulling for Carolina to pull this out I I have no problem with that. That no call. I I I think I'm alone on this. And and I put it in our group chat. and every and basically everyone was like shouting me down. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go now. I do have a problem with it in that situation. And the answer is always, it's the emotion of the moment. And I'm like, don't give me that. Every we Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: We all have grandmothers. We all know when it's a pro when when you can say things and when you cannot say things. And it's totally fine when it's on the field and it's picked up by a mic or someone's mic'd up. Like whatever. I don't care. I'm not against cursing. Like I have no problem with that. I just think it's a goofy thing. I I think it's a thing that people do usually to try and be tough to be the badass. And be like, see, I don't care that I'm on national television. And and it's done ju it's it to me, it's it's always just been like a lack of caring. And I don't know, I it just feels goofy to me. It just feels like a like a goofy thing. I don't really care that much, whatever. Who cares? since I wasn't even gonna talk about it, but since you brought it up, I thought, I'll I'll say what I said. Jackson: I think there's there's an element of being a professional and knowing like you said, you when you're in the flow of a game and you know, gets caught by somebody's, you know, mic'd up pack or, you know, a sideline microphone. Yeah, I think that's one thing. I do think there's a little bit of like, hey man, you know, you're sitting here, you're talking to a woman first of all, and you know, be a little bit of a professional. Neil Barrett: Yeah. To me, there's there's always a different I I think the the like heat of the moment in those, you know, a a microphone got stuck in your face i is maybe not a a super well thought out answer. Or, you know, the the Richard S Sherman, the famous interview when when he made the the play in the end zone that like ended the game and you know he was he was talking junk about Michael Crabtree or you know, maybe that's maybe knowing Richard Crabtree or Richard Sherman. Maybe that's something he would say about Michael Crabtree anytime you asked him. But certainly in that moment, right after the play happened, he's gonna talk a little junk about Richard Sherman. That to me is fine. I still think ever everybody knows. Like you, you know, again, it wasn't like a it wasn't like a hidden camera, it wasn't like it was picked or a hidden microphone, it wasn't like it was picked up by by something. Jackson: you Neil Barrett: It was literally an ESPN microphone and a camera stuck in your face. Jackson: you Neil Barrett: Like you you know. You know. So again, it's not that big of a deal. I don't care that much. I'm not making it a point to bring it up. It came up. So I I figured I w I would talk about it. but yeah, I just I I'm also very much one of those, generally speaking, I I think there's times when you can show them an appointment b an opponent or whatever, and it and it's in Jackson: Right. Yeah. Neil Barrett: the name of fun and and enjoyment. But generally speaking, I'm one of those hand the ball to the ref guys. So you know, I I recognize that is is me. And that's why, like I said, in the conversation that we were having in the in the group chat when everyone else was like, I think it's totally fine. It's the heat of the moment. I was like, okay, cool. But that's you guys. I'm we want we don't have to have this conversation. That's totally fine. So back back to the the lacrosse on the field. Jackson: you Yeah. Neil Barrett: I I definitely think that well, you know what? let me let me ask you the question. I know I know we just we just said chaos hater. Where where do you feel like they are? Are they are they are they right up there with the Redwoods in in that kind of like right behind not right behind, because we've talked about there's a there's a decent gap there, but in that in that number two. two-ish spot kind of right there or or what? because we we talked about the Redwoods kind of feeling like that team, but I mean this is an overtime game that that easily could have gone the other way. And we're talking about Carolina that way. So is it is it that are they that level team? Is this just a good matchup? I feel like the the these two teams always give us a good game. you know where where are you feeling on Carolina? Jackson: Yeah, I think like you said, it's just that these two teams match up super well against each other. I think if we had to rank everybody right now, I think like you said, it's outlaws kind of in their own little tier. I think the Redwoods have a little bit separated themselves from the rest of the pack. Then I think it's a pretty big pack there in the middle. with teams like Carolina, like Philadelphia, like New York, when they put it together, and Maryland. And then I think real actually, I'm going to take that back. think it's, outlaws Redwoods, but Redwoods are closer to this group here. And I think in this group, it's Carolina, Philly and Maryland. And then I think there's another group here that I think is archers in. New York and I think still pretty close to this group is Boston. Neil Barrett: Part of me wants to wants to give you crap because if it feels like that's some blue and orange tinted glasses. But also part of me is like, you know what? I don't hate it because I I'm I'm I don't love this New York team. At least again, the way that they have been playing. I do feel like they're maybe starting, like Connor Schellenberger is starting to really figure out what he needs to do for this team to be successful, and how he needs to. not necessarily fill the role of Jeff T, but but make this team in in his image and and fill the role of the guy that's making this team run. and so maybe in the in the second half, like I said, that that totally changes. But right here, right now, I I just don't have a ton of faith in this this Atlas team that the defense is a mess. Jackson: That's my gripe with them. Neil Barrett: I think yeah, I think I think that defense has made Liam Enserman look bad. you know, w we th we Jackson: Yeah. Well, and you also have to wonder how long is Trevor Baptiste going to be out? Because that's a huge part of their game as well. And so if he's out the rest of the season, yeah. So if they're out the rest of the season, yeah, throw them in there with the archers. Throw them right near the cannons as well. I also don't hate having them in that kind of the middling tier with the chaos, with the water dogs, with the whip snakes. I don't hate seeing them there either. Neil Barrett: And Danny Logan as well. Yeah, it feels like the the the projection of how good they could be puts them in that tier. But if you if you're looking at what they've done, I don't hate the idea that they're that they're not even in that tier. because again, I mean that the defense is bad. I think the midfield hasn't looked good for them either, Brian Costabil aside, who but in a weird way, he was kind of like Dylan Malloy. Like when I looked up what he's done this year, I was like, wait, he he has? He's been that good because it doesn't feel like it. Jackson: He had a huge game to open the season. I think he had an eight point game to start the season. Kind of could be inflating. mean, you can say the same thing about Mack. You can kind of say the same thing about Dylan Ward because he had, I say only three points on the weekend. But yeah, definitely getting, yeah. Neil Barrett: Malloy. You said Ward and and then you said three points. And I was like, Wait, what? Dylan Ward had three points? That's great. Jackson: Sorry. Yeah, Malloy only, I say only three points, three very big points this weekend. You know, some of these guys are being propped up a little bit by some bigger games. But like you said, you know, the woods go as he goes. So definitely a fun one. know, Ryder Garnsey kind of coming back out party. You know, really, really fun to see him. I think it's Joe Keegan that says it's the year 2026 and I've still never seen Ryder Garnett score the same goal twice. So that's always a fun one to watch. So yeah, it's gonna be... I do think down the stretch this season is gonna be fun. I hope with the scheduling the way it is, I hope that there's still some momentum to be kept and that we do get a fun finish even though... Neil Barrett: No. Jackson: Really the West will be decided the week before Philly because I think the only team that plays in Philly from the West is the Outlaws. So it will be a fun, fun finish, maybe at different times, but maybe that'll make it even more fun, who knows. Neil Barrett: Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. kind of to your point, we were talking about it a little bit before we hopped on. I I still feel like a lot of these teams, I I know we just kind of laid out where we think they are, but so much of it feels like it's based on only what we've seen. And we still don't really know who a lot of these teams are and what they'll be because, you know, we've played six games, but it's been so chopped up and players missing and you know, like just no consistency. whatsoever, even this deep into the season, it can easily everything change like that. No, no, no questions asked. So let's Jackson: Yeah. Well, and a fun story to watch down the stretch too will be other teams playing double headers and not their own market. You know, there's three teams that played two games in Denver, archers, Philly and outlaws. And then obviously, you know, there's no league buys on the back half. So, you know, the water dogs have to play two, two double header weekends. Neil Barrett: Yeah, that's true. Jackson: you know, within a month of each other. So, you know, how, do legs go? Obviously they're one of the younger teams in the league. so maybe that'll be a little advantageous for them, but, yeah, a of, a of storylines to watch kind of, kind of down the stretch should be a lot of fun. Neil Barrett: Yeah. I I'm I don't know if I want to say excited, 'cause there's like a trepidation about it, but I'm just excited, I think, that that we have consistent lacrosse. You know, like you said, no more no more league wide buys after the all-star game. well, at least into the playoffs. and then, you know, there's some there's some there's some things to be watching for. I I I'm I'm excited about that. But yeah, that I the whole thing the whole thing just feels weird and there's a whole nother conversation that we could probably be having about this season and the way that it's gone, and we'll hold off on that. Maybe maybe when Brandon and I have this conversation, we will have to bring you back. But let's switch gears really quick and talk about a couple other things that happened this weekend. Obviously. we can't not talk about the WLL that game this weekend that saw the California Palms absolutely smoke the New York Charging 16 to 9 to take over first place in the WLL. we were just talking about how it didn't feel like anyone was going to be able to beat the charging, which of course meant that the Palms immediately came out and just absolutely torched the charging. they outscored New York ten to four in the second half. just an insane game. I should have worn my Palms jersey. I actually was thinking about it and then totally forgot Do you is is this just one of those things where you think they match up? You think this is still gonna be New York's title to win, or is there something here where the Palms could actually signaling that the Palms could actually win? Jackson: Yeah, I like the Palms team a lot. Definitely impressive to hold the charging offense. Only one player is he's gained with multiple points. So, really kind of had a game plan and executed it. And like I said, mean, that charging team is phenomenal. Neil Barrett: I do too. Yeah. Jackson: Like I said, it might just be one of those matchup things, but with a four team, there's no playoff games, it's just the championship. So if it's this matchup again, how do you feel as a charging fan to see this game happen and wonder what may happen down the stretch? Neil Barrett: The here's something that's real scary that I didn't even I didn't even realize until my friend Foss put it out. They did this all without their number one overall pick, Madison Taylor. The Tauraton winner has not played for the Palms yet. So they're going to add her to this roster. we talk about we talk about thin margins in the PLL. Holy crap. I don't I don't the Boston Guard lost Charlotte North. And I'm not even I'm not even entirely convinced that they're like done. Even though it feels like they they probably should be losing someone like that. it it's a wide open league. I I hesitate to be like, yeah, this is a a signal that the Palms could win it all. Jackson: So Neil Barrett: But like you said, if you're a charging fan and this is and this is the championship matchup, you're not gonna feel super confident, I wouldn't think. I'd hope not. But we'll see. it was a entertaining game as all of the WLL games have been. It was 11 o'clock start time, though. it was not Jackson: You Neil Barrett: It was fun to watch. It was not fun to be up that late. I forgot. you and I were you were and I were talking earlier about the bubble tournament in 2020 and staying up for all of those games and just being so like into it and and and doing it and loving it. And now every time we get a we get a PL after dark game, I never regret it, but. man, it g it is getting tougher and tougher every single year to pull off. luckily, like I said, I was I was dog sitting this weekend. So like it wasn't a it wasn't a huge deal for me to sleep in a little bit later. I didn't actually sleep in that late, I even though I wanted to. but but yeah, it just gets it just gets harder and harder to actually pull it off. And I That being said, I I always love night games. I always feel like there's such an energy of with night games that like just isn't there during the day. But, you know, can we not make the night games happen in California? Jackson: You Neil Barrett: And I and I know they have to get up early and watch games, like but as someone who who lived out there for a while, I actually loved it. I loved getting up like even watching soccer, like European soccer. I get up at like four in the morning, watch my two-hour game, go back to bed, and still wake up at like nine o'clock and have the whole day ahead of me. Like I I learned to love that schedule. It gets it gets a little tough when it's like Jackson: Right. Neil Barrett: you know, midweek and and you have work or something and and the game's on at three o'clock. Like that gets a little bit tough. Like I hear you there. but can we it's a Saturday? Like come on. Can we can we do something? Not at at eleven o'clock. But anyway, the the last two things relatively quick, we got an update on the all-star game rosters. I let me see if I still have this up. Nope, not Instagram, just kidding. Jackson: It's Sam King, Matt Traynor, Pat Kavanagh, Colter Macassi, and Connor Farrell in for Bo Pedersen, Trevor, finished. Neil Barrett: There it is. Jack Hannah, Matt Campbell, and Jared Bernhardt. Which is which is interesting because Jackson: I would have gotten there eventually. Neil Barrett: All of those players, minus Trevor Baptiste, played in their team's games this weekend, did not leave the field with any apparent injury. No one was limping or anything. No one was showing any signs. So interesting that those players are. Jackson: Well, Matt Campbell's been on the the pop list for a little bit. So that's so it's Trevor and Campbell that weren't. But yeah, I see the point there. Neil Barrett: My bad. Jackson: I don't have a problem with it, but I know we want to put on a good show and, and all that, but. Neil Barrett: I don't No, I I don't I don't care about a guy s especially there are some guys who are playing in real games through something that they don't need to play through for the all-star game. That's fine. I don't the only thing that bothers me mildly, and it's not even that big of a deal, is that now, you know, we were talking about this last week on the show, the idea of like what an what being an all-star even means. And when you're one of those guys who just got added to the roster. and I don't want to call anyone out specifically, but some some of those guys probably don't technically deserve to be there. and now they get now they are going to be an all-star because they played in the game. and they're only there because someone got hurt and and pulled out. And it it it almost feels like you need like a secondary designation or something where like, yeah, you played in the game, but you weren't really an all-star. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: Or something. Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. Anyway, all that to say, I don't want to talk about these players and like try and put them down. They're great players. but I did want to like provide the update that those those five players were added and the five were removed from rosters before the All-Star Game in Annapolis this weekend. you are a big fan of the the uniforms. Jackson: I Neil Barrett: we didn't I don't know if they were out Jackson: like them. Neil Barrett: the last time we were we did the show. So you're you're a big fan. Jackson: Yeah, I just think they're clean and simple and match the theme for the fourth without overdoing it. Like I feel maybe some of the jerseys in the past have done. Looking at you jockey jerseys. Neil Barrett: man, I'm not gonna lie to you. I liked the jockey jerseys. I mean, they weren't like my favorite or anything, but like I didn't think they were that bad. But but they are the they are very polarizing jerseys. I know lots of people that do not like them. so like I'm not saying that I'm right or anything, but I I didn't they didn't bother me. I I I liked them. I didn't think they were nearly as offensive as the Crowd Strike jerseys. Jackson: Yeah, that was another bad one, the black and red ones. Neil Barrett: That one that one was bad. I was not really a big fan of the the yellow and black one. W was that p why were they yellow and black that Jackson: not sure, I guess the PLL colors. That was another draft year, so that was Team Baptiste and I can't remember who the other captain was. Neil Barrett: And didn't they do didn't they do like button ups? What was that that year? And they I not they wore They didn't wear them like in the game. I felt like they did. Anyway. Yeah, yeah, like shooting shirts. Yeah. Yeah. Jackson: I don't know actually. Like shooting shirts almost. No. I know we we did rookies and vets or like young guns and whatever. I can't remember what those jerseys looked like. yeah. And I did like the jerseys last year. Red and blue, those were nice. But this year out, yeah, definitely a fan of. Neil Barrett: I'm trying remember where that game was. That was Boston. Yeah, rising stars and veterans. Yeah. Well, I I am one of the people that's like, I I feel like I need to see them on the field before I can really make of my mind up. I didn't love the mock up of the PL ones, but the WLL ones I thought looked pretty good. So I was like, I don't know if it's the design or the mock up that they used or what like I I'm gonna I'm gonna have to say. I also think it's gonna depend maybe a little bit on what like the helmets look like and stuff. So we'll see. But the last thing before we get out of here, I don't even know that you and I can really talk about, but I I would be remiss if I didn't at least mention that the NCAA has officially passed the five for five ruling. there was a pretty good article from Inside Lacrosse about what that means for lacrosse. In fact, I believe the title is the NCAA passed five for five. What does that mean for lacrosse? And then the subtitle was honestly, I don't know. And I feel like that's where I am. And that's part of the reason why we're probably not gonna have a larger conversation about this, because we still don't really fully understand what this means for Swarz in general, but specifically for lacrosse, you and I were talking before the show about Bobby Van Buren and the fact that I I'm pretty sure that he now technically could. stay even beyond this upcoming season. but because he's redshirted now twice, I'm pretty sure that he has a master's degree and he may not want to or need to stay. So he he still coming out, you know I Jackson: Yeah, well, and that's like for anybody else. mean, know, Grant Amitt declared early. You know, Brett Dobson declared early. So, you know, not to say that there won't be you know, across the draft next year makes, you know, the Redwoods trade of their first round pick for the goalie from Princeton look a little better now, kind of a gamble that that's paid off already. But, you know, we'll see kind of what the what the future looks like. I definitely am going to be doing some reading to try and understand, but. does not feel like the year to finish last. Neil Barrett: I Brandon and I talked about this a a couple weeks ago, and I still am of the opinion. I look See if I can find it real quick. Adam Lamberti's Way too early b big board for this coming up season, which obviously will have changed by the time he does another round because of this ruling. Jackson: you Neil Barrett: But Why is it only pulling up the 2026 one? I'm over here trying to see if I can find it real quick and I'm not finding it real quick. And there it is. All right. My thought is, not all of these players are going back. Here's here's here's his name: Sean Light, Ben Johnston, Owen Duffy, McCabe Millen, Brady Wombach, Caleb Viok, Dom Petramala, Bobby Van Buren, Ryan Goldstein, Charlie Johnson, John Schroeder, who I don't even actually know who that one is, AJ Larkin, Willem Firth, Riley Figueroaas. Jackson: So Neil Barrett: Colin Cordilla, Tucker Wade, Nate Kabiri, Jack Spidel, Ty Banks, John Mullen. wow, this keeps going. That was the that was the top 20. 21 is Max Sloat. You know, Ryan Colzey from Virginia is 25. Jack Stoll, the defender is 26. Like, how far how many of these guys are going back? Like you're telling me you you can't take that number one pick for them? Hunter Chavette, 29. Liam Connor, thirty. Like there's a there's a super deep even if half those guys left or stayed, I'm like, you still don't want that number one pick? Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: We'll see. Whatever. But one that I think is gonna be really interesting is like what Sean Light's gonna do. I think that could hit whether or not he stays at Notre Dame for an additional year could really change the way that this draft comes up. So that's that's kind of the the key one. But again, just because somebody has eligibility do doesn't mean that they'll use it. so Jackson: you Neil Barrett: We'll see what happens there. like I said, at some point there will probably be a longer conversation about the ramifications. But right now it just feels like so much is up in the air because the another thing that I've seen at early before they decided was a discussion about a tiered rollout and it not taking fully effect for a another year or two. I don't know if that's all been decided or what, but I think it's still kind of up in the air how that's going to happen. So You know, who knows, but I have taken up more than enough of your time. So let's let's wrap this up. before we get out of here, man, you got anything anything fun going on this week? Jackson: You No, big day tomorrow at work, end of the month. But then I'm just gonna go hang out with my parents for the fourth, I think. So it should be a fun time. Go out on the lake a little bit and enjoy some adult beverages, I believe. Neil Barrett: Nice, nice. Sounds fun. I haven't I haven't been to the lake in a while. I should go. I have a buddy that has a lake house. I should go. Maybe, maybe I'll call him up. Fastest shot, who wins? Jackson: That's, mean, Jared Newman, guess. He's been redubbed the fastest shot king since Graham Hasek no longer plays in the league. So I guess maybe he's going to be too scared to defend his crown or, I guess he's not technically not. Is he on the All-Star team? Neil Barrett: I guess. He is an all star, cause basically every chaos player did. But also, am I wrong, or did they have some people compete that weren't all stars? Were did you have to be an all star? Jackson: Okay. I think you did, that may be why he wasn't in it last year. Neil Barrett: Okay. Okay. Maybe maybe so. maybe it was something else I was thinking of where where they brought you know, it's probably like the NBA where they they brought some people in, but okay. Good to know. And and I don't I honestly I would ask you for some other I don't know what else they're doing. I don't I don't think they've announced any other events they're doing. Jackson: No, Relay or... Yeah, I don't know. mean, I don't even know. mean, like, I would say Brennan, but he would have to pull out a long pole. mean, he definitely big enough to get it going. But I'm trying to even think of other poles. I don't know. Maybe maybe Mitchell Dunham surprises somebody. Neil Barrett: I just want That's fair. That's fair. I I just want in the middle of the the the fastest shot competition for like Stone Cold's like glass shatter to happen and then out walks Graham Hosick. and it's like, dude, first of all, that's ha that's half joke. If that happened, that would be s that would be amazing. That would be so much fun. Jackson: Ha ha ha ha. That'd be awesome. Neil Barrett: I wish that they would do some more like fun things and like, yeah, okay, he's not in the league right now, but like let's just bring him in. Let's have some fun. Let's make it a let's make it an entertaining thing. That being said, the Chiefs probably have a game. He probably can't make it, whatever. But yeah, that's that's fine. Whatever. that's pretty much what I'm getting into. I don't I have n literally no plans for this weekend. My mom was just telling me that She's doing something. And I was like, I guess I should probably figure out what I'm doing. You know, Jackson: Yeah. Neil Barrett: I have Friday off, like I could do something, but I have no plans. So anyway, that is all for this week. If you enjoyed this episode, the Lax Lifers Club is where our community lives between episodes. It's a Discord for fans watching lacrosse year round, not just when the PLL is on, aka a lifer. The link to join is in our description. A big thank you to Jackson Van Vlake for filling in this week. Go check out his show, Empty the Quiver for Everything Utah Archers. Across social media, you can find me at IM Neil Barrett. Jackson, you are you are Van Vlake on everything? Vlake Van. Jackson: I'm Blake Van on Twitter. Yeah, and then, yeah, I usually just defer to the podcast accounts for everything else. But yeah, Spotify, YouTube, Instagram and Twitter X, whatever you like to call it. But yeah, come find us. Neil Barrett: Fair enough. Nice. If you haven't yet rate and review the show on whatever platform you are listening on, it takes about 30 seconds and genuinely helps people find us. With that being said, Brandon will be back next week, as will I, obviously. So until then, we'll catch you guys in the comments.