Snubs, Surprises, and Favorites

Neil Barrett (00:02.222)
that. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the run out. I am Neil Barrett. He is Brandon Hoot and we have so much to get into this weekend, which is or this week, which is crazy because there wasn't any games this weekend. The PLL Awards were announced today. An NLL team is moving and the Six Nations chiefs roster is basically Space Jam's Monstars. But before we get into any of that,

How are we feeling Brandon? No games this weekend. Nice hat by the way.

Brandon Hooten (00:33.902)
Thank you. It's slowly making its way into my rotation here.

Neil Barrett (00:39.106)
Yeah, all that Chrome stuff is nice. Cause like you don't have to be a, you know, a Chrome fan. They don't exist anymore. It just have cool gear. So what, what we get into this weekend, anything, anything cool?

Brandon Hooten (00:46.734)
Yep.

Brandon Hooten (00:54.484)
No, I shot that bare-knuckle event Which ended up not not being the best of times just up not optically but situationally where I was allowed to be and whatnot they changed that up quite a bit so a Bit iffy, but you know what I got the shots. That's all that matters really But other than that no, I as much as I wanted to watch lacrosse was nice to have a bit of a break and just Kind of be out of it for a week, but excited to get back into it and obviously with the awards today like

Neil Barrett (00:57.584)
that's right, that's right.

Neil Barrett (01:06.35)
you

Neil Barrett (01:17.644)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:23.608)
jump right back into it and like I mean no time off essentially so

Neil Barrett (01:25.332)
right back into it. Yeah, yeah, I was it was a good it was a well-timed break for me because the English Premier League started on Saturday. So I got to watch. Well, I guess I think it actually started Friday, but I got to watch Manchester United. They did not win, but they did play pretty well, which is different for them. They finished 15th last year, so they.

Brandon Hooten (01:50.5)
Oop.

Neil Barrett (01:51.96)
playing pretty well against Arsenal, one of the, you know, the favorites every year is, I'll take it. It's better than what we were last year. So anyway, let's talk some lacrosse. We'll start with the NLL where yesterday the news broke that the Albany Firewolves would be moving to Oshawa, Ontario, a suburb of Toronto. If you don't know where that is, ironically, they will actually be closer to Toronto than the Toronto Rock.

That's just bizarre. But we'll talk about that. also maybe maybe more importantly, Adam Levi also reported that this move makes it even more likely that the Philadelphia Wings will move to Montreal before the start of the season. So lots of lots of stuff up in the air in the NLL right now. We did talk about the the night almost said Nightwings.

Night Hawks being purchased by the Seneca Nation last week, but that would make it now two and more and more increasingly likely three teams that will have had some somewhat substantial off season doings, guess. How are we feeling about this? You're the you're the NLL expert here.

Brandon Hooten (03:22.372)
Yeah, I mean, I think it I think it makes sense. Just it, I understand everyone's like freaking out because it looks bad optically. But when you're a franchise that for whatever reason, that area of the United States does not support lacrosse the way it should or the way that you might think it is on the surface. And on top of that, like I read an article today that said that apparently it's tough to fly from like Toronto to Albany.

Directly or something like that which makes it very difficult for some of these players to get there I mean, it's not that far of a you know a plane ride But for some reason that doesn't really happen and apparently there is unfair high-state workers compensation insurance fees as well Which also makes this difficult. So when you pair those things in with Low attendance even for a team that just made the NLL finals two seasons ago, like they don't really have a choice

And get, again, I understand that like with the Nighthawk situation and then Philly's rumors being up in there that it looks bad, but it's like, I don't know what else you're really supposed to do as a franchise, unfortunately. And I think we need to get out of this mindset of like treating these franchises like they're NFL or NBA franchises because they don't have the backing yet. And that's, that's just what it is. Like if they had the NBA's backing all of a sudden, or money rather, all of a sudden, like this isn't happening. So I think it's fine. It sucks that it-

You fan base has to lose their team. But at the same time, like this is twice now that this specific franchise hasn't worked out in a place. And as far as Philly goes, like I was, I just sent a message to Kyle the other day or earlier today. I got an email from them that was like welcoming the new naming of their arena. So now I'm like, are you guys staying there? Like, I don't know what's going on with that situation. If they go to Montreal.

Cool, I think that makes them seven Canadian teams and seven American teams, so maybe you go to conferences that way, which I've been asking for conferences ever since they went to Unified Standings. So that's kind of a lot, but that's an overview.

Neil Barrett (05:29.549)
Yeah.

You said one thing that I, I started saying like a week or two ago and that, and it goes for all lacrosse. We're talking specifically about the NLL right now, but I think it goes for the PLL as well. This isn't the NFL. They're not the NBA. It's not major league baseball. We have to stop treating these teams franchises, whatever they happen to be in their respective leagues as if they are those things because we're only

we're only shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to act like these teams are at that level. you know, in the PLL, I've seen so many people that are like, the teams need individual owners. Why? Why do they need individual owners? Especially in the NLL's case, we have had individual owners. It hasn't stopped teams from folding, hasn't stopped teams from moving. It hasn't stopped anything. You know,

Everyone looks at an owner like a Joe Tsai and thinks that everyone's going to be that level of committed. We just saw Panther City, their owners were in it to make money. And when they didn't make money, they pulled the plug after three years. And as good as the Pagulas, Pagulas?

Brandon Hooten (06:51.383)
Yeah, that's who owns the bandits in formerly Nighthawks now.

Neil Barrett (06:52.76)
Okay. Yes. As good as they are for, for Buffalo and the bandits and the Sabres and the bills and everything, you know, they were trying to hold on. They were trying to keep Rochester afloat and it just, it was too much and they had to step away. you know, like you said, the money isn't there and we have to stop acting like these are

big time sports franchises because they're not. I saw someone say that, the PLL could sell all of their, their teams to individual owners and make 10 million a piece, which one, well, I've done a, I did a little bit of research cause I thought that number was crazy. That is apparently more or less the number for an NLL franchise. One that doesn't necessarily mean

Brandon Hooten (07:31.405)
That's outrageous, by the way.

Neil Barrett (07:48.898)
that it's the number for a PLL franchise, but even if it is, let's say it is, that's $80 million. That will go very quickly.

It's not the same level of

I know 80 million seems like a lot to us as like individual, you know, people who will likely never see $80 million in our lives. But it's in terms of like running a sports league, $80 million is not that much. So like you said, we gotta stop treating these teams like they're that. And I agree with you. think the only question I had was,

Well, I think this could be a very good move. The only question I have is can Toronto, the greater Toronto area support two teams? They do. And I'm not saying they can't. I'm just saying it's one of those things that like we're going to have to see they do with MSL. They do with with junior league junior A's and I guess junior B's. They probably have some senior B teams as well. Plenty.

Brandon Hooten (08:47.875)
I think so.

Neil Barrett (09:06.114)
I'm sure. But, you know, the NLL is a little bit of a different beast. That being said, I think they're whatever 110 kilometers turns out to be in terms of miles. don't know what the math is on that.

Brandon Hooten (09:22.465)
I think it's like a 90 minute drive, think is what Adam Levi said. So not very far, but at least it's a, it's a decent enough distance to where like you can still, to me, it's like the same. It's like a Rochester Buffalo situation where like you can, and, and I believe, don't quote me on this, but I believe their new stadium they're moving into just got an upgrade to where it'll hold like 7,000 or something like that. And Toronto the last couple of years was playing in some other.

Neil Barrett (09:26.838)
Okay. Okay.

Neil Barrett (09:41.132)
Yeah, I think it was seven was what I heard.

Brandon Hooten (09:47.971)
facility while their stadium was getting repaired or something and that only held like five or six thousand and they packed that. So I'm sure there'll be a decent amount that can go there to what are they gonna be called? Oshawa? that what it is? Ontario?

Neil Barrett (10:03.086)
So yeah, I was going to say one of the there's that Oshawa NLL account that I'm pretty sure is fake. And then there is there was a supposedly a copyright or something for Ontario Firewolves. So that's yet to be seen.

Brandon Hooten (10:09.27)
That's fake. That's fake.

Brandon Hooten (10:21.43)
Yeah. I like Oshawa. I think they'll go Oshawa.

Neil Barrett (10:26.942)
Oshawa Firewolves over the Ontario Firewolves.

Brandon Hooten (10:30.848)
You can't take over Ontario. You're the new guys on the block. You can't take over the whole province.

Neil Barrett (10:36.056)
mean.

Brandon Hooten (10:37.416)
No, no, no. You can take Oshawa, come prove yourself, and then you can have Ontario later on.

Neil Barrett (10:46.254)
I I think some of the Oshawa fans might be like, hey, what's what are the rock done to claim Toronto lately?

Brandon Hooten (10:54.658)
If they come out, if they pack out their building, after one season they can change to Ontario since technically they do own the trademarks to both so they could at some point just be like, hey, it's Ontario now.

Neil Barrett (11:05.74)
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, we've seen we've it was at the.

Brandon Hooten (11:10.912)
I'm down for it though.

Neil Barrett (11:14.92)
the the Bayhawks, the Bayhawks were Baltimore, Chesapeake. I think they were I think they were Annapolis for a little while. The lizards were I think they were the New York lizards and then they were the Long Island lizards and then they went back to New York Lizard like it. We've seen it happen. We've seen it happen.

Brandon Hooten (11:32.915)
Yep. But, but yeah, I'm, I'm mostly just excited that there's another like big rivalry there. Cause like right now, like without conferences, you kind of have Rochester Buffalo just off proximity. That's kind of it, honestly, as far as like, like you still have the old like Western and Eastern kind of rivalries, but those aren't even really as big now. Cause anyone who's tuned in recently doesn't know about those. So I'm kind of excited. I understand people are.

Frustrated about having so many teams in like a You know one little area, but like you gotta do what you gotta do, unfortunately

Neil Barrett (12:10.51)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as much as I think we'd all love to see, you know, teams spread all over the place. If those teams aren't being supported, I'd rather have 10 teams that are all within, you know, a 650 mile radius, then, you know, 12 teams that collapse the league, you know, so.

Brandon Hooten (12:31.914)
Yep. And a lot of this, I said this in a group chat the other day as well, like so much of this, I know people like to say like, what's going on in the NLL, but it's like so much of this is out of the league's control that like, it's not their fault that the Pergulas were like, hey, we're done with Rochester. And that in the same off season, then Albany's like, actually we're going to move too. Cause now the league has to respond to that. Like it, it is what it is. so I think, and I'll give Brett Froude credit, like he's only been in

as commissioner for two or three years and I feel like he's had to clean up quite a bit. And generally speaking, he's done a pretty decent job. So I'm curious to see if this works. I will say I think they need to then stay in Oshawa for the next 10 years. I think everyone needs to stay if they can and find a way to get a lot of these franchises attached to NHL teams or NBA teams where they own the building. Cause every team that has that does well. Obviously there's the one-offs like the Joe Sy.

who I don't know if he owns where the seals play, like he has enough money and cares about lacrosse to be like, here's the funding. But I think at some point we're gonna need to get these teams kind of aligned to where, hey, you're a part of the building, not just like we can squeeze you into some random facility at some point.

Neil Barrett (13:48.792)
Well, and to that point, whether or not Josiah owns Pachango Arena or not, they're the only, I believe, full-time tenant of that arena.

Brandon Hooten (13:59.33)
I think there's a minor league hockey team. But I'm not totally sure though. But I believe they're called the Seagulls or something like that, I want to say. But yes, you're right. It's like, even if there's two, that's like two. So it's much easier then. But I look at like a place like Denver where we have...

Neil Barrett (14:05.014)
Okay. Okay.

Brandon Hooten (14:19.102)
Literally two other full-time teams playing at the same time and we still make it work still packs out the place like so these these things can can work but these teams need to start really hunkering down and staying like Seneca nation needs to stay there and Invest in that team for the next decade. Oshawa needs to invest like all these teams need to actually put in the time and Honestly, it would really help if they communicate with their fans about what the fans want to see as well

Neil Barrett (14:44.578)
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, to that point, I think, I think Montreal, if I know, I know we don't want to, we don't want to see the wings leave Philly, but if they're going to Montreal looks to be like a very good, you know, future location for, the league, whether it's, whether it's, you know, Philly franchise moving there or just them getting a team in another way.

They do look like kind of the future of the NLL and I'm with you. think, I think the longer these teams can kind of carve out their, their place there, the better it's, it's going to be. Montreal could be a really good place, a kind of in a similar vein to San Diego because it's the Canadians and that's, know, pretty much it. There's not a whole lot else in terms of like major sports going on up there. So it could be, it could be a really good spot. So.

Hopefully over the next few weeks, months, whatever, we'll, we'll get all of this stuff ironed out and get into hopefully an opening day on time. They did, I didn't write this down, but they did push the what free agency window. Is that right? Free agency.

Brandon Hooten (15:55.009)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (16:02.985)
Yeah, free agency got bumped again to the 29th. which a lot of people on Twitter were freaking out about this. This was kind of expected, by anyone who watches the NLL and pays attention to it. because again, CBAs are difficult and you don't just go from not hearing a single word about progress to then the next day being like, Hey, we got a deal and free agency can start today. That's not how this works. so as of now, free agency is on 29th and then the draft is on September 6th.

My only question is I don't know if if they don't reach a deal What what I really think is gonna happen is they're gonna extend their current CBA for one year Play the season and negotiate throughout the year because I think that's kind of their bend their Achilles heel Not just in the analog, but we've seen this in like the NBA as well Where they don't really negotiate till the end of the year and then it takes them too long to get to terms because all these guys are working multiple jobs They don't have time to meet every single day. So they need to be doing this kind of throughout the year And then at that point

you see where you're at revenue wise, especially with a new franchise essentially, and see where we're at. And then next year there'll be a full CBA is my guess. But if not, I don't know if they're still gonna have the draft on time or if that gets pushed. Like, cause technically the draft is gonna happen no matter what. So I don't know. It's a lot of moving parts right now.

Neil Barrett (17:24.258)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I mean, they can't really move. mean, they, they could move it for sure, but like, doesn't make, I don't think you need this. Yeah. I don't, I don't think you need to move the draft. If there's no CBA, like it's just a draft and those pixel count. And if that's this year or next year, maybe it them 10 years. don't know why it would take them 10 years, but like those players will just be belong to those teams whenever the CBA gets signed. So.

Brandon Hooten (17:32.353)
It doesn't help or hurt the situation, essentially.

Neil Barrett (17:54.092)
I wouldn't expect that even if they delayed the CBA or free agency or whatever they, I wouldn't expect them to push the draft. So that'll be, that'll be pretty fun. That's, that's what two weeks from now.

Brandon Hooten (18:06.649)
Yeah, 11 days for agency and then almost three weeks, I guess, for the draft.

Neil Barrett (18:07.329)
Almost three.

Neil Barrett (18:13.016)
Yeah, almost three. Interesting. Okay, cool. Well, like I said, definitely keeping an eye on that as we head into the PLL playoffs as well. But we'll talk about that. guess I guess when it happens, let's move into the PLL awards that were announced today. We're going to discuss the finalists a little bit. Then who who we think will win and who we think should win because

Those are not always the same person. we are going to let me get this pulled. Come on, dude. What is happening? There we go.

Neil Barrett (18:55.362)
We are going to start with, I figure coach of the year has got a little bit of a debate. We're going to start with coach of the year. But I figure we'll get this one out of the way and then we can talk about the players. So the three finalists are your boy, Tim Sudan, Mike Pressler of the Atlas and Anthony Kelly of the California Redwoods. So how are we feeling about these finalists?

Brandon Hooten (19:23.633)
well first before we get into this specifically It's a bit weird this year because each category has like a weird number of finalists, some have three somehow four. so like Take that as you will but I don't I don't mind the problem is all three of these guys. I think are are deserving It's just I think there needs to be more respect on Roy Colsey a little bit ever so slightly

Neil Barrett (19:47.768)
Hmm.

Brandon Hooten (19:50.613)
Just because, I say ever so slightly in regards to him versus Anthony Kelly. Just because I think we viewed both of those teams coming in as like the bottom two in the league and both outperformed what they were supposed to do. Whereas, and this is no knock on Mike Pressler, we all expected Atlas to be good. Which is also a common argument I've seen online so far. So I don't mind the finalists, but I would like to see Roy Colzi.

in there probably over Mike Pressler just because they were supposed to be good but credit to him for you know keeping them on track and and being good as well. The other thing I saw Hutton Jackson bring up actually on Twitter was we have to consider the GM role for a lot of these coaches as well and from that standpoint like Tim Sudan had a really good GM year I mean really good Mike Pressler putting together the team that he has over the last several years really good GM you know what mean like there's it's hard to just be like

Neil Barrett (20:30.616)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Neil Barrett (20:36.012)
Yep. Yep.

Brandon Hooten (20:45.15)
boy this guy can't be in here because rick holsey and it's like well but these guys are also putting together the team who performed well so keep that in mind as well as i'll say but

Neil Barrett (20:55.106)
Yeah, so I'm a Mike Pressler guy. probably wanted all the way back to like Duke. Big Mike Pressler fan and I thought he would come good and he has come good and I'm I'm glad to see it. I don't think he deserves to be here. Last year, yes, I don't I don't think it always has to be the guy who goes from last to first. Like that doesn't have to be it. Sometimes

the coach of the year is the guy who, you know, we've, we've talked about it for several years now that you could almost always give this award to Jim Stagnetta. He's always like the top tier coach in the league. So while I don't think that it always has to be the guy who goes from worst to first, I just kind of like you were saying, like I don't

Last year, it made a lot of sense for him to be in this category, but this year it feels like I can't think of anything that he really did notably in the off season in terms of player personnel movement changes. He hasn't really done anything coaching wise to put his team in a better position than they were last year. It's just kind of been a continuation of last year and that's no shade.

They were very good last year. They are very good this year. I just think when you look at, like you said, Tim Sudan, I think. I think the GM offseason that he had is crazy. The trade for Pat Kavanaugh worked better than I think even the most ardent Pat Kavanaugh supporters would have thought it would have.

getting Jared Bernhardt to sign with them was insane. don't, I still don't really understand how he pulled it off as was reported. Other teams offered him more money. Other teams could have given him more of a like prime role. And even if you say, well, he wanted to play with his brother. Well, he could have also done that with the whip snakes as well. So convincing him to sign with the Denver outlaws was a huge coup.

Neil Barrett (23:18.624)
that I don't think people are giving him enough credit for. And I would also argue that. I think I think in a lot of seasons, Tim Sudan has. Maybe gotten in his own way a little bit, he's maybe over coached teams. I think you as a as a outlaws fan would probably agree with that.

And so one of the things that I think he did most was not not a hands off approach, not like not like he's just rolling out the ball and telling them to go play. But he has not interfered with things as much. It's one of the things we used to talk about with Chris Bates, with the archers. And I don't know that it was all on him, but I Jackson Van Vleeg, huge archers fan that he is will tell you, I used to say

Bates going to Bates all the time because he was always making the wrong decision late in games and affecting his team's ability to close out games or win games or whatever. And the last two seasons, he stopped doing that. He was like removing himself from it and kind of allowing players to make plays and do things. And again, that doesn't mean there's not schemes. People talk about this all the time. coaches don't do anything. Coaches do a lot more.

than people think that they do and a lot more than they give them credit for. So Tim Sudan deserves to be here. I got no qualms whatsoever with Anthony Kelly being here. He should be here. They outperformed what even again, the most ardent Redwoods supporters thought they were going to do.

However, comma however.

Neil Barrett (25:15.754)
Roy Colsey, he has to be here. It doesn't make any sense. They were preseason They were being discussed as like an all time bad team. and the end and that's not hate. And I think I think even now you look at this roster and it doesn't make sense. They're not they're they're not a well constructed roster, but they've they finished five and five and

tied for second place. mean, they're, they're, technically third on gold differential. If, if they don't get their brains bashed in by the whip snakes that one week, there's a, there's a very good chance they're, they're the second place team in the West. And, you know, I just, doesn't, it doesn't make sense, especially when like you said, there seems to just be this arbitrary cutoff. It doesn't,

different awards get different finalists. Nobody knows how many or what or when. we'll talk about it later. Some last year goalies had five. this year There's what was it? They're one of the three ones this year, right? And it's like, we're just arbitrarily like cutting off who was a finalist and what, so it's like, you know, this is one, I don't think anyone would have any complaints about this.

Brandon Hooten (26:28.851)
Three. There's three, yeah.

Neil Barrett (26:43.594)
as long as Roy Colsey, he was up there. If it was, if they added him or they swapped him out with, with Mike Pressler, I don't think anyone would have any complaints whatsoever. So that's, guess the thoughts on the finalists. Who, who do you think will win? Is it the same person? Do you think should win?

Brandon Hooten (27:02.021)
No, no, I think not a knock, not a knock on him at all. I think Tim Sudan will win. I think Roy Cozy should win.

Obviously he can't, because he's not a finalist, but...

Neil Barrett (27:19.712)
of the three finalists. Do you think Kim Sudan? Okay, see that? Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (27:23.025)
Anthony Kelly. Anthony Kelly. Because until they put in a GM award, I, it's hard for me to, I know it's gonna be hypocritical because I just said to consider it, but like, it's hard for me to also add in their GM things, parts of it, because some of these guys have their own GM, so they don't have that advantage anyway. Like, you know what mean? So yes, I think Sudan did do a great job building the team.

And then I think he benefited from that team. I don't necessarily think he did anything coaching wise that was like, wow, this really helped the team other than putting in Logan McNaney, which if we're counting that, then I sure. But I just, like you said, I just think what Anthony Kelly did and Roy Colzi, I think probably should have earned them the award. But I think because of how good the outlaws were, think Team Sudan probably wins it.

Neil Barrett (28:18.414)
So I'm, I think I'm the exact opposite of you. I think Anthony Kelly will win it. I think Tim Sudan should win it because of the whole thing. think Anthony Kelly is the story of in terms of coaches this year. He's the, mean, again, the story I think overall is Roy Colsey and what, what the chaos did. I think that's the

the story of the season. But in terms of these three, I think Anthony Kelly is the story. I think Tim Sudan is. Yes, I think it probably leans a little bit more heavily on his GM work than his coaching work. But like you said, until there's a GM role of the year role. And that's all kind of encompassed here. I think he gets the nod for kind of both, whereas I think Anthony Kelly, you look at and it's only coaching because.

You know, he had Joe Spelina, as GM, who who made a lot of those moves before they hired Anthony Kelly. So. You know. That's that's kind of how I'm seeing it, and we're probably both wrong. It's probably going to be Mike Pressler that wins it. You know, whatever. Let's move on to.

the comeback player of the year. This is a new award for this year. It's something that people have been asking for. I don't know about you. don't really even have any comments on the players selected.

Brandon Hooten (29:57.632)
Nah, those are good.

Neil Barrett (29:59.726)
there. Yeah, fine with me. So I guess we'll move on to who do you think will win and who do you think should win?

Brandon Hooten (30:10.727)
Okay, I think I think Dylan Malloy will win I don't have an opinion really though on if he should or someone else should win because I think all these guys are in a similar boat just kind of for different reasons obviously two of them with injury one of them just kind of I'm not gonna say he was blackballed, but it did feel that way you like looking back in hindsight So I don't know that I have one that's like this guy should or shouldn't win it necessarily

I think it's easy for Dylan Malloy to win because he has like the numbers playing attack. So that's why I think he will win it. But I'll be fine if either any of these guys win it because I think coming back the way they did and being impactful is it's always difficult no matter what you're coming back from. I'm just glad this is even an award this year. I think that's a huge step in the right direction.

Neil Barrett (30:59.158)
Yeah, I'm with you. think Dillon Malloy does win. Again, we're talking about that that story. I think I think Dillon Malloy has a lot of fans. My issue is and I don't even think that the comeback player of the year award has to be someone who was injured. I do kind of have a problem with a guy who just like.

Wasn't playing winning it Like he was with the atlas the last year and season and a half and Like there just wasn't a ton of room for him. So he wasn't playing like I don't I don't know it feels weird to Give the comeback player of the year award to a guy who in the last Two seasons averaged a point a game

And then his last like full season in the league with Chrome, he had 25 points. Like, I just feel like he was never really not the player that he is now. He just wasn't being used. Whereas, you know, Brad Smith was out of the game for over a year, like.

Neil Barrett (32:20.014)
So in that sense, and to be completely honest, I don't know enough about Jack Keelty and his injury. Was he out all season last year? I don't even know.

Brandon Hooten (32:27.742)
I'm pretty sure he got injured in preseason if I remember correctly. Let me check here. Yeah, played zero games last year.

Neil Barrett (32:31.618)
and he was out the whole season.

Neil Barrett (32:38.69)
Okay, so yeah, I mean, I know Brad Smith.

Brandon Hooten (32:41.726)
But mean, we're talking like, like Kielty went, I know Koss turnovers can be, you know, altered a little bit, but I mean, he had 11 Koss turnovers, 2023, and then 12 this year in his first year back. Played all 10 games as well.

Neil Barrett (32:54.04)
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, coming, this is one of those where, again, I don't think it, I don't think it should or always has to be about an injury, but coming back from an injury is just so much more difficult and thus impressive to me than basically playing the same way you always played and just not necessarily getting the opportunity to do it, you know,

He was playing on that attack or he was fighting for attack time with Jeff T. Xander Dixon and Connor Schellenberger like. Yeah, I don't. So he's he was mostly running out of the box, which I don't think is a is a good use of him. So I don't know. It just feels weird to give comeback player of the year to someone who just wasn't being used. I don't know. Yeah, that's that's my thoughts.

Anything else for you on that one? All right, let's move on to. where's that? These are not in the correct order and it wouldn't let me switch them. So here we go. Let's move on to short stick defensive midfielder. We're going to ramp up to the more challenging ones here. The finalists are Brian Tevlin, Ryan Tarifenko, Danny Logan and Dylan Hess.

Brandon Hooten (33:56.424)
No, that's fair.

Neil Barrett (34:22.957)
You got thoughts.

Brandon Hooten (34:26.589)
It's TeraFanco.

Neil Barrett (34:29.943)
Why?

Brandon Hooten (34:31.518)
He's the best two-way midi in the league in my opinion Obviously, I'm slightly biased but I mean I I think I think honestly on the graphic it's between the three guys on the left No disrespect to Dylan Hess. I just think the other guys are I had better years quite frankly I will say I will give an argument for Danny Logan as well because that defense is very different when he's not playing

Neil Barrett (34:39.95)
Slightly.

Brandon Hooten (35:01.948)
Which is the only way that I could see him getting the nod because I think outside of statistics like he's a guy that always impacts the game positively. Like I don't think I've ever seen a bad Dandy Logan game. Maybe I have at some point, but I can't recall one. And I will say too, Brian Tevlin was sneaky good this year with 12 cost turnovers. So for stats junkies like that's going to jump off the page.

Neil Barrett (35:23.842)
So.

Neil Barrett (35:28.226)
Yeah, so funnily enough, the...

Neil Barrett (35:35.63)
I wanted to make an argument for Dylan Hess because I think he has been very good. I've been very impressed with his with his on ball defense. And then in my in my brain, he's he's pushed transition so well. And in my brain, he had somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 points. And then when I was looking at this, trying to prep for the show earlier,

I saw that he only has two and I was like, two, that's it. That's, that's all he had. And I think they came in either one game or in like back to back games. so, you know, I'm, kind of with you. This, this one would go back for me to like, why did we have four short stick of short stick defensive midfielder the year?

names like why why didn't we just do three because I don't know that anyone thinks Dylan has even has a shot. I am not. I am not against. Anyone any of the other three, I think are perfectly deserving. I think you laid out the case for Terry and for Danny Logan. I got to I got to say

Brandon Hooten (36:37.372)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (37:03.882)
I of feel like it's Tevlin. Like you said, Tevlin was sneaky good this year.

Brandon Hooten (37:08.99)
Yeah, it was.

Neil Barrett (37:12.258)
The, mean, he did, he did everything this year. He had more ground balls, more calls turnovers than, than Tara Finko. I think he had, I think he had a few less points, about half as many points. But the only thing I'd say is I think part of the reason why he's, I did not say that correctly. Why he's, why we said that he was sneaky good.

is because I don't think you notice him on the field. Whereas I think you you notice Ryan Tarifenko and Danny Loken for probably for different reasons, but they jump off the page when you watch them play. And that's not necessarily Tevlin's fault, but it is.

It is something interesting and I do think something that will ultimately probably hold him back from winning it, whether he should or shouldn't, we could debate that, but I don't think he will. think it's my question to you is.

Who do you think does win it between Terafinco and Danny Logan? Cause I feel like Danny Logan is kind of like the media darling. But I think there's a pretty strong argument that Terry may have had a better year.

Brandon Hooten (38:37.605)
Yeah, that that's why I said I think it's terry because I think I think danny logan's a guy that like he could kind of always win it Like it's because he does a lot of things that aren't on the stat sheet so he can kind of always win it but I think because terry was more Noticeable if you will both on the stat sheet and on film. I think he will end up winning it I think tevlin like to me. This is one of the closest award races like

Neil Barrett (38:48.043)
Mm-hmm.

Neil Barrett (39:05.09)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Hooten (39:05.917)
Of the bunch just because I think those three guys like are so good at what they do But they're but they all do it slightly differently and so that's why you can make an argument for each one but I think like Danny Logan's kind of just like a hey man, like we'll give it to someone else this year like cuz cuz cuz he does so much But I think Tarafango Kind of having that transition offense that they had this year kind of put him in front of people more and was like, oh this guy

Neil Barrett (39:15.758)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Hooten (39:35.165)
He's able to really push the pace and he's good defensively as well Whereas like Tevin was much better defensively probably but not so much on the offensive end so It's tough

Neil Barrett (39:47.436)
Yeah, Tevin was definitely that.

Neil Barrett (39:53.678)
don't want to call him a stats merchant, but he had that, that, he has the stats. He has the resume, the thing that you can go on the website and look at and be like, man, he was really good. The other two, like you said, kind of opposite Danny Logan, just defense shuts people down. Like you said, that defense is totally different when he's in.

but he's not necessarily the guy pushing in transition, scoring goals, doing stuff like that. As opposed to Terry, who is that guy? He's the guy pushing transition, bringing the ball up the field, getting assists, finding a little back door cuts to get goals and stuff. like you said, it's all, those three guys are very different and all have a case for it. And I kind of,

Not to be, sometimes I'm different from you to be different from you, not because of that, mostly because I think Danny Logan is kind of that media darling. I feel like it's gonna go to Danny Logan. It's often hard for that person to not win. Like you have to be better than them by an extra amount to overcome the kind of name recognition.

It's one of the things I've talked about with Trevor Baptiste for several years now is you can't just be a little bit better than him. You have to be like noticeably significantly better than him to overcome that name recognition. And that's perhaps not fair, but it is kind of the reality of the situation.

Let's move on to speaking of Trevor Baptiste. Let's move on to face off athlete of the year. Our three finalists are Trevor Baptiste, Joe Nardella and T.D. Erlen. We missing anybody?

Neil Barrett (42:00.662)
Now these are the three. All right. All right. So.

Brandon Hooten (42:02.999)
I think Justin Anasio had a great year, but he did only play seven games and I think he's not a big enough jump away from TD. I mean, he's 0.4 % better than him this year, so it's kind of like you played less games and you got 0.4 more. So otherwise, had he played eight or nine games, maybe put J.I. up there, but.

Neil Barrett (42:26.444)
Yeah. No, I totally agree with that. If he's not even necessarily a full season, but like you said, if he's if he's eight, nine games and he's still up in this mix, I think I think he's up there, but he took a hundred less faceoffs than Trevor Baptiste. Like, you know, not saying it would have affected his numbers too much, but it might have. So that being said,

Who... Who you got?

Brandon Hooten (42:57.969)
TD, easy money. Drop it off at the bank, cash the check. TD is winning, rightfully so.

Neil Barrett (43:05.922)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I.

Brandon Hooten (43:08.707)
Not that not that the other two are bad, but td just had just had a crazy year

Neil Barrett (43:11.554)
For now.

Yeah, yeah, he had other than Justin Inacio, like you just said, of guys who started the entire season. He had the highest face off percentage. had the, I guess Trevor had, was second in TD was second in face off wins. had more ground balls than

I don't know. guess he was third. Weirman actually had more ground balls, but all that to say he's like top three in basically every face off category, which just about nobody can say. So I'm with you and six points. Yeah, right. So I'm with you. I think it's it's TD all day and you know, I feel a little bit for Joe because he always seems to be

Brandon Hooten (43:52.761)
and 6 points, led the position.

Neil Barrett (44:09.378)
the second best midfielder of the year, except for I think he did win it one year, but otherwise he's always the second best midfielder. Honestly, I would probably say TD, Joe, then Trevor. I think Trevor was considerably third place. And that seems weird to say for a guy who's been so dominant like Trevor has.

Neil Barrett (44:40.6)
Well, that one was easy. I don't know. thought we might have a little bit more to say, but let's move on to LSM of the year where our finalists are Jake Piseno Troy Reh and Mason Woodward.

Brandon Hooten (44:44.014)
Easy.

Brandon Hooten (44:56.592)
You don't gotta say them all. You don't even gotta say them all. We all know who it is. This is the easiest lock of all time. Jake Piseno Lock It In.

Neil Barrett (45:05.09)
The one thing I wanted to ask you about here, cause I agree with you, it's Jake Piseno. It was always going to be Jake Piseno. Like there's not even much to really discuss, but I wanted to ask you, are these the three guys that should be here? Yeah, it doesn't feel like these are the three guys that should be here. And I don't understand.

Brandon Hooten (45:24.527)
Nope.

Where is Michael Grace? Where is Michael Grace?

Neil Barrett (45:31.234)
The only thing I thought about Michael Grace was he only played eight games only.

Brandon Hooten (45:40.186)
I mean, same cost turnovers as Mason Woodward, two more points, five less ground balls.

Neil Barrett (45:41.454)
I'm not saying this.

Brandon Hooten (45:49.08)
He should be up for Rookie of the Year as well. I'll just put that out there while we're talking about him.

Neil Barrett (45:49.229)
The

Neil Barrett (45:55.936)
I thought Ben Weir and Owen Grant could really be up there.

Brandon Hooten (45:58.523)
Yeah, yeah. Ben Ware especially. He was incredible. And this is no way a knock to Troy Reh or Mason Woodward, because they're both also incredible. honestly, they're lucky that, I'm not lucky, but Jake Bacino was locked no matter who they put up there. But when I saw this come out, I was like, okay. That's interesting.

Neil Barrett (46:14.722)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (46:23.662)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's, it's purely mathematical cause no, no one's winning it other than Jake Piseno. Uh, so, you know, how much value is there in being a finalist in an award? You're not going to win. I don't know, but I was a little surprised by, by the numbers this year. It is really interesting that it is going to be, I think it

Brandon Hooten (46:32.912)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (46:53.08)
Dick Piseno wasn't a finalist last year, right? This is a whole, completely different cast, I'm pretty sure. One, I wanted to get your opinion on a lot, a lot of mainly Whipsnakes fans were calling for Colin Squires.

Brandon Hooten (47:01.274)
Yeah, I don't remember.

Neil Barrett (47:18.924)
And that really kind of blew my mind.

I'm not the best at paying attention to the defense, but I was like, just, don't, maybe, maybe he's just a lockdown pole. But for me, there's a whole lot of things that I feel like are missing from Colin Squire's game. You know, he, he turned the ball over more than he caused turnovers.

He had what one point I think it was, one point on assist. For me, I feel like LSM is such an important position for.

Brandon Hooten (47:58.192)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (48:06.574)
causing turnovers, pushing in transition and like putting up points. And I don't want to say it has to be all about the stats because I don't think it has to be. But I feel like there is some element of like, this is one of those positions where I think stats can help differentiate if you're, if you kind of belong in the conversation. Again, if we're talking about 10 points for one guy and eight points for one guy or

35 ground balls and 30 ground balls. Like, sure, we can debate that. There's plenty of room. But when you're just like so far down statistically, it's like, I don't know. I don't know.

Brandon Hooten (48:47.963)
Well, and the thing is too, like, the other guys that are ahead of him, they didn't only have the offensive stats, like they also had the defensive stats too. So if you're really arguing just stats, which a lot of times comes into play, like, he's not in that conversation. And I'm a Squires guy, like I love calling Squires, but when you're comparing, it's just, you know, and again, like these other guys that we named, like, who had the better season when we're nitpicking things? Like,

You know, it's, it's, I, and don't get me wrong, but I get that like, Whip Snakes fans want to see their guy represented. Like, we all want to see our guys from our teams be represented. At the same time though, you also have to look at, hey, he had a down year compared to his other years. You know, Piseno had a better year, Grace as a rookie had an incredible year, Wardrobe was great, Weir was great, Reh was great, you know, like you just go down the list and you're like, there's only three finalists. So if there were five finalists, maybe you'd have more of an argument, but.

You

Brandon Hooten (49:52.974)
Even then, still pushing a very tough position at that point.

Neil Barrett (50:00.3)
Yeah, no, I'm I'm right there with you. I I'm surprised at Troy Reh and Mason Woodward being included, but. Not. Some of the guys that weren't included, if that makes any sense, I mean, I guess, I like you said, where there were there were a bunch of guys that I had to put on this list before I got to Colin Squires, he'd. I'd have left this list alone before I added Colin.

column squires to it basically.

Brandon Hooten (50:33.279)
This is one of those awards that in my mind is kind of like if players are approaching a game, who are the guys they don't want to face? Which maybe don't show up on the stat sheet or whatnot. So that's why I'm not upset with the finals because I do think there is that element of like if I'm an offensive player, do I really want to see Mason Woodward guarding me? Probably not, you know, so that's why I kind of gave this this category a pass because it's like it's up to players, unfortunately. Well, not unfortunately. It's good thing, but you know.

Neil Barrett (50:41.559)
and

Neil Barrett (51:02.35)
Yeah, let's move over to midfielder of the year. The the finalists here are Matt Campbell, Jared Bernhardt, Brian Costabile and Aiden Aiden, Andrew McAdory. Anyone missing in your mind?

Brandon Hooten (51:17.987)
Andrew.

Brandon Hooten (51:25.435)
Hmm. Let's see.

It's tough because we could not figure out if Matt Brandow played a tack at all for the WIPs this year. If he did...

then no. If he did not, then yes, he should be on the list. But I feel like I remember the Whips playing him at attack at least a couple games. I could be totally wrong. And if I am wrong, Whips fans, that's, feel free to call me out on that, but I'm almost certain he did, which inflates numbers. So if he is on the list though, he would be replacing Jared Bernhardt.

Neil Barrett (52:09.45)
My, my thought was not so much that playing attack inflates his numbers, but like, which, mean, I guess it does, but my thought was more like if, if the, the bulk of what he put forth in terms of goals and stats and, offensive output took place while he was playing attack. Cause I'm with you.

We weren't totally sure so we could be wrong here, but I swear he was playing attack.

Brandon Hooten (52:43.991)
When like I said, they've inverted a lot. I mean when they'd come out with rosters, at one point they had Levi Anderson as attack and then he started playing at midfield and Aiden Carroll was switching and like, I mean they literally, you know, flip-flopped guys left and right every week.

Neil Barrett (52:44.428)
Especially

Yes.

Neil Barrett (52:59.436)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, but my thought too was you're, you're 100 % right about that. Excuse me. But my thought too was that I'm pretty sure that, that at least twice this year he lined up at attack. Like he was just straight up an attack man. I want to even say that they finished out the season with like,

wasn't it like him and maybe not finished out the season as in the last game. Cause I know Rob Pinell played, those, those two games that Rob Pinell like didn't play in, I'm pretty sure he was playing attack. was like him and TJ and I don't know, Aiden Carroll or something Levi, maybe it maybe it was Levi Anderson, but like he was playing attack and

You know how not even not even from like a point stop, but just like if if he was putting in a lot of time at attack, like, can he really be midfielder of the year kind of material? You know, I don't know. And I don't I legitimately don't know the answer to whether he played attack or if if he played attack. How much does that negate his ability to win midfielder of the year? I don't know. Otherwise, otherwise, I think we're.

Brandon Hooten (54:19.226)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (54:21.976)
were more or less correct. I was really excited to see Andrew McAdory up there. I thought he deserved to be up there, but I was a little unsure if he would get the nod just because he doesn't have the highest points total. Although looking at it now.

He is, guess, third in midfield points behind only Matt Brando. So I guess he did have a better point total than I thought, but I thought I thought his contribution was more about like total package, which obviously he scored a lot of points. So that's. Obviously a huge positive, but. I don't know if I just wasn't expecting him to be midfielder of the year material also.

We'll get to this in a minute. Was he a rookie of the year final? I feel like he wasn't, but maybe I just missed it.

Brandon Hooten (55:25.94)
No, I don't think it was.

Neil Barrett (55:27.564)
I don't think he was either. like we're saying that he's a midfielder of the year candidate, but not a rookie of the year candidate.

Brandon Hooten (55:33.836)
See? See? You're getting into my argument that I was making a couple weeks ago on Twitter about goalie of the year and rookie of the year.

Brandon Hooten (55:45.282)
in which you told me was not a valid argument.

Neil Barrett (55:46.094)
Bye!

Neil Barrett (55:49.644)
Well, yes. Yes. What I said was that he was that didn't make him a lock for rookie of the year, because in theory, you could be the best goalie in the league and still have, you know, two attackmen and a midfielder and a deep hole that were, you know, better than you. And to that and to that

Brandon Hooten (56:15.938)
Yeah, and it just so happens that there's an attackman and a goalie and I believe another attackman that are better as rookies than McAdory was.

Neil Barrett (56:27.758)
get less less on this term work in here because I need to see it I need to see it

Brandon Hooten (56:28.77)
No!

Brandon Hooten (56:33.53)
you

Neil Barrett (56:34.734)
Anyway, who do you think wins?

Brandon Hooten (56:38.562)
Matt Campbell's gonna win.

Brandon Hooten (56:43.194)
He's, I mean, he's the best of that bunch that played every game and was consistent on a struggling Boston team. Like, I think if Bernhardt played two more games, or I guess he missed one game, if he played one more game, maybe he's up there, but he'd still have to put up another six points to even tie. McAdory was really good, but...

Neil Barrett (56:43.499)
No.

Brandon Hooten (57:11.578)
I don't think anyone's going above Campbell, honestly. I just...

I have a reasoning for it. He's just he's gonna win it. I don't know if there's anyone else that should win it either

Neil Barrett (57:26.382)
Here's my thing. I don't know.

how much, and we'll get into this with some of the other awards. I don't know how much they're gonna hold the fact that his team did not make the playoffs against him. I'm not saying that it should. I'm just saying that it very well could. My opinion is that it shouldn't matter. We're talking about an individual award. Team success shouldn't really matter. If you want to make the argument that it matters for MVP,

Again, I might disagree but at least that okay I can kind of understand because it's it's a slightly different award I think you can be the best positional player and your team still suck But like I

Brandon Hooten (58:14.106)
But mean, he- he- he led all these guys in points. He led them all with the least turnovers. He was second out of them in two point goals. Like, he- You know what mean? It's-

Neil Barrett (58:25.25)
We're going to we're going to get into a guy who led his position in statistics and was snubbed in a minute. So all that to say.

Brandon Hooten (58:33.85)
Well, sure, but also, we didn't decide finalists. We're going off of who is there. like, I mean, CJ Cospiel has always been a guy that think has just, not quietly, but because of who's around him, quietly produced very well. I Bernhardt was very good, but again, he missed a game. He had the one game in Utah where he had five turnovers. So, you know, had a couple, including those two games, essentially, that he had nothing to produce.

Neil Barrett (58:37.934)
Yes, yes, yeah.

Neil Barrett (58:58.606)
Mm-hmm.

Brandon Hooten (59:03.546)
And McAdory as impressive as he was as a rookie like you still have to overtake the guy that's at the top Which is Matt Campbell in my mind

Neil Barrett (59:16.238)
I feel like all things considered, McAdory maybe should win because he's right up there in terms of points. He's the only guy on this roster that's playing both ways. He was taking faceoffs at one point this year. Like he was doing everything. I don't think he's very likely to win. I'm with you. think Matt Campbell probably does win. I think the only...

chance maybe anyone else has is just that they, again, that they discount him for playing for a team that didn't make the playoffs, which again, I'm not saying they should, I just think could happen at which case, I don't know, it's, if it's not Matt Campbell, it does kind of feel like it's got to be McAdory because,

Brandon Hooten (01:00:05.047)
Well, other thing with Mac, though, is he had four games with one or fewer points. Which none of the other three have.

Neil Barrett (01:00:10.506)
Right.

But my, but my thought would be, how are you going to give it to Jared Bernhardt or Brian Costabile who are both offensive midfielders? Like that's, that's all they do. If, if Brian Costabile gets caught on defense, you're going at that matchup.

McAdory was literally like taking short stick defensive midfield runs. He was taking a face off runs and he finished with more points than them. He had more points than the offensive midfielders. That That would be my argument is like, how can those two win when he did their job better than they did and did other things as well?

Brandon Hooten (01:01:00.705)
Well... But also then, who was on McAdory's team then that is holding him back from putting those up? Because Bernhardt plays on Arousher with three other T'warathon winners, Kostabio plays with T, Shelly, Dixon... Which, that's holding him back from getting more. And they're all within what, two points of each other? I think? Yeah, so I'm with you on the defensive part of McAdory.

Neil Barrett (01:01:01.27)
That being said, think I think you're right. think it's Campbell.

Neil Barrett (01:01:23.235)
I mean...

Brandon Hooten (01:01:28.877)
But I do think like if you put McAdory in the other on the other teams versus moving them over to the Redwoods They're gonna outperform him which again, he's a rookie. So that's what he should do. Like I'm not docking him

Neil Barrett (01:01:36.14)
I mean, the Redwoods also had Chris Kavanagh and Dylan Malloy who were top 10 scorers. So like, it's not like they had nobody over there.

Brandon Hooten (01:01:45.421)
I'm not saying they had nobody, but they didn't have Brennan O'Neill and Pat Cav. They didn't have T and Shelley.

Neil Barrett (01:01:52.344)
I mean...

Brandon Hooten (01:01:53.476)
There's no way you're putting those with the same conversation as T, Shelley, Brennan and Kaft. The other Kaft.

Neil Barrett (01:02:02.158)
Matt and Chris finished with the same amount of points. Dylan Malloy was only two points behind Brennan O'Neil. It's not like they were crazy better.

Brandon Hooten (01:02:10.706)
Sure, but if you still replace them, one is going to be way better than the other.

Neil Barrett (01:02:16.523)
Maybe.

Brandon Hooten (01:02:17.697)
Like if you, if we put Kosta on the, on the woods.

Neil Barrett (01:02:19.79)
I'm gonna use what you used last week. We're talking about hypotheticals that you could never prove. That was one of your words last week. Okay, all right. As long as we're on the same page. But all that to say, I'm with you. It's almost definitely going to Matt Campbell. Like I said, the only doubt in my mind is just if they penalize him.

Brandon Hooten (01:02:26.699)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That is true. We are. We are right now. That's true. I'll accept that.

Neil Barrett (01:02:48.866)
for his lack of team success, which isn't even, you know, again, necessarily, I don't think an important argument in this conversation. So let's move on to...

Defensive player of the year. This one is Sophie's Choice over here. You got Graham Hossack, JT Giles Harris, Gavin Adler, and Jack Rowlett. First of all, I'm not even gonna ask you. There is no one missing from this list. They nailed this. A lot of, again, Whipsnakes fans are saying Ajax got screwed.

Brandon Hooten (01:03:07.445)
lordy.

Neil Barrett (01:03:34.84)
I don't think he got screwed. I think he's number five. If there were five finalists, he would be up there, but he is number five. Like these are the top four guys. As far as I'm concerned, I think you agree. Yeah, so the issue is try and put these guys in order one through four.

Brandon Hooten (01:04:00.345)
I can't I can't I picked Haas before the year to win DPOY so I was happy that like I at least got a finalist in there but like JT I mentioned this two weeks ago must have been that like JT just He's like a silent assassin. We're like, you don't see him on the stat sheet cuz he's so good and he locks people down like but then at the same time like Gavin Adler, I don't want to go at him. I don't want to go at Jack Rowlett like those are guys that you avoid, you know what I mean? So like I

Neil Barrett (01:04:19.202)
So good. Yep.

Brandon Hooten (01:04:29.399)
this and I said this on Twitter too like this is genuinely one that I don't have any indication where it's gonna go because I don't know how you make like a like a dedicated argument for any of them over the other you can make an argument for each player but not over the other finalists like I genuinely don't have the answer I think it probably ends up going to Haas or Rowlett because of name recognition

not that not that JT or Gavin Adler don't have the name but I mean Haas broke a record this year that I think is keeping him fresh in the minds and Jacker let's a dog that I mean he's mic'd up like every game so you're seeing a lot of him as well so

Neil Barrett (01:05:13.59)
Yeah. The other thing too about these four is that I'd say generally speaking,

They're not big stat sheet guys. They are all shut down one-on-one defenders. They are going to take your number one and just silence them.

And to that point, because none of them are stats, you can't even fall back on like a stats based argument to try and rank them out. I don't know that there's a wrong answer here. If I was ranking them. I think Jack Rowlett is ever so and we are splitting the finest of hairs here. I think he's fourth.

Brandon Hooten (01:06:13.739)
I'd agree.

Neil Barrett (01:06:16.717)
I'm honestly not even sure how to rank the other three. My Duke bias wants to say JT Giles Harris is number one, Hasek is number two, and Adler is number three, but that is almost exclusively biased talking. is no, I couldn't defend that that order in any way.

Neil Barrett (01:06:49.355)
I have

Brandon Hooten (01:06:49.472)
I'd have to go back and watch the tape honestly, because Haas and Adler both have 13 or more cause turnovers, JT has 7. So I'd have to go back and watch like whoever they're matched up on, how many points did they give up?

Neil Barrett (01:07:05.495)
JT is very much not a stats guy. He is 100 % that number one eraser that is going to hold up his guy for someone else to come over and cause the turnover or whatever. And he's always been that way. I think if I was asked,

to rank who I thought was most likely to win, I'd probably flip Hasek and JT Jaws Harris. I think I lean ever so slightly with you that Hasek is probably the winner. And I don't even disagree with you that if it's not Hasek that it could be Rowlett because of again, the attention, the name recognition, all that kind of stuff. So.

Brandon Hooten (01:07:46.711)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:07:56.097)
And I'm not even saying that like they're gonna rig it and be like because I saw this last week on Twitter today that was like They're gonna pump their guys like and I was like, I don't think the league is gonna be like always a big name Let's give it to him. I just think that voters will think about him more than Some of these other guys that are shut down But you have to literally watch like actually pay attention to them to see their impact Which I think is where JT and to an extent Gavin Adler really shine compared to the other two

Neil Barrett (01:08:18.402)
Yeah, yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:08:23.19)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and Gavin Adler and Graham Hasek do things like take Brennan O'Neill out of games. know, they, they have even, even when they aren't putting up stats, they get talked about because of who they shut down. you know,

Brandon Hooten (01:08:34.989)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:08:47.03)
Exactly.

Neil Barrett (01:08:49.102)
Brennan O'Neill had the 0 for 11 game against Graham Hasek earlier this year. So, oh, excuse me, 0 for 10. And to be fair, Brennan O'Neill, I thought it was 11, but I have no idea. And Brennan O'Neill did kind of get one back. I don't think he was necessarily one-on-one with Hasek. Was Hasek, did Hasek?

Brandon Hooten (01:08:52.472)
0 for 10, 0 for 10. Don't put an extra shot on there. I don't know, it may have been 11 but I thought it was 10.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:09.59)
Yeah, yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:14.86)
The step back he had was definitely on Haas, like he froze him.

Neil Barrett (01:09:18.892)
He did have a couple, but I don't think it was as...

Brandon Hooten (01:09:20.482)
But I also think that the archers, they pass them off quite a bit on screens and whatnot.

Neil Barrett (01:09:24.206)
I was going to say, I don't think it was as much of a one-on-one matchup as it had been in the first game, but let me open this back up. Let's move over to. This one's going to be fun. If I can find it, it's going to be here. 2025 rookie of the year. Why did, why did this one get a date? And none of the other ones did anyway.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:28.619)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:09:51.963)
That's a great question.

Neil Barrett (01:09:54.062)
The finalists for the Rookie of the Year award this year are Chris Cavanaugh, Logan McNaney, Owen Hiltz, and Aiden Carroll.

I know that was your pick. I know that's your boy, but why is Aiden Carroll on this page?

Brandon Hooten (01:10:12.183)
because they wanted to put four.

Neil Barrett (01:10:16.622)
Again though, I'd go back to Andrew McAdory. why, I don't know. I like Aiden Carroll a lot. I liked him at Georgetown. I liked him this year in the PLL. I don't know why he's on this page.

Brandon Hooten (01:10:38.647)
I I think that his team is just more of a wild card for the most part. So when you look at his impact versus McAdory having Cav and Malloy, I think that's kind of an easier way to be like, well, he should be there. I also think they probably didn't want to put two Redwoods on there because of how good Chris Cav was. Like you don't want to be like, here's the best rookie, but he also had a great rookie teammate that was, you know, so I'm also with you though. Like, like.

Neil Barrett (01:11:05.326)
Which is what

Brandon Hooten (01:11:07.447)
I don't think you can be the best at your position and then not be a rookie of the year finalist. That doesn't make any sense to me in general. from that standpoint, yes, he should be here, but I'm just trying to think of why they would have put Carol or Hiltz or whoever over McAdory.

Neil Barrett (01:11:28.268)
I mean, the other three guys, think, I think makes sense. And, if it was just those three, think, I think there's a strong argument, but again, it's like, why, why are there four? Why do we just have this like arbitrary number that doesn't make any sense? You guys just kind of pick and choose when it's three, when it's four, when it's five, you know, whatever.

Brandon Hooten (01:11:52.48)
Also Sam King not getting the nod is actually kind of surprising as well. And like you said, I love Aiden Carroll. I'm very thankful that I picked him beginning of the year and I was a finalist. That's awesome. like, I mean, Sam King was taking over games for a star studded roster that, you know, so I am surprised they didn't put if not McAdory Sam King as the fourth, but.

Neil Barrett (01:11:55.63)
I was going to mention Sam King too, yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:12:08.834)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:12:17.73)
Yeah, he's got, he ended with five less points and I'm sure that that's like the reasoning here, but I'm with you. he, he was taking over games down the stretch and winning winning games for the archers. So

Brandon Hooten (01:12:33.845)
Yep. Also Michael Grace, I said earlier.

I would like to see him in there. I know he's not as flashy because he's not an offensive guy, I think he should have been up there if he's going to be even just the fourth. Maybe he's the fifth. I don't know, but.

Neil Barrett (01:12:51.564)
Yeah, it feels like we need to first settle on a number of finalists and then then we can move on. Let's let's talk about who we think will win or and or should win. I I have this feeling that it's going to be Chris Kavanaugh. It just feels like all the momentum towards the last I think I think two weeks, but definitely that last week.

Brandon Hooten (01:12:57.281)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:13:20.92)
pushed in his favor, the Redwoods making the playoffs and everything, being in large part led by him to the playoffs just feels like it swung everything his way combined also with, I think Logan McNaney faded just a little bit down the stretch. And then I think Owen Hiltz, I think the conversation all year has been.

He didn't play enough games. didn't play enough games. know, missing that time at the beginning of the season really seems to have hurt him, even though, you know, he finished right up there in terms of points, although.

You

Brandon Hooten (01:14:05.045)
He actually, if he kept his pace and he played those final three games, the first three games rather, he would have been leading in points if he kept pace.

Neil Barrett (01:14:14.306)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:14:16.08)
so I, so something to think about, but I think.

Neil Barrett (01:14:20.94)
Which I think is, I think that's why he makes the list, but I just don't know that it's going to push him over the edge.

Brandon Hooten (01:14:24.46)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:14:32.799)
Yeah, think I think have probably wins it Obviously I'll talk about it more for an upcoming award, but I think Mcnaney should win it I've made that pretty clear on on here on Twitter like I'll save most of that banter for goalie of the year, but I Think Chris cow is probably the best of the attackman. So I have no problem with him getting in over Hill Sir Carol

I really do wish Hiltz played those first three games though because I would love to see the battle that that presented And McNanny the first two games as well for that matter but just man that would have been If Hiltz would have kept going at three point nine points a game like that would have been such a tight race I think but yeah, like you said, I think the momentum for Cav is kind of I think them making the playoffs really was like, okay like

We landed, here we go. I do wonder if they miss the playoffs, like, do they hold that against them? Again, I don't think they should, but I do have to wonder that, but yeah, think Cav probably wins it.

Neil Barrett (01:15:31.246)
Mm-hmm.

Neil Barrett (01:15:41.998)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you there. Uh, it is a bummer because I, know, Mcnaney and Hiltz, I mean, even Carol and McAdory and Eicher. And there were so many good rookies this year that could have, excuse me, like, like you just said, Michael Grace, great, great rookie of the year. Uh, absolutely deserving of being listed as a finalist, but

You know, if we're doing this arbitrary number thing, why not put eight of them in there? Like just give everyone that deserved recognition, list them all. Like why cut it off if we're just doing it randomly? Speaking of Logan McNaney and the Goalie of the Year Award, let me find it, there it is.

Brandon Hooten (01:16:13.398)
No.

Neil Barrett (01:16:36.654)
goalie of the year. Liam Intiman, Logan McNaney, Blaise Reardon. Who's missing?

Brandon Hooten (01:16:45.258)
That would be one Brett Dobson.

Neil Barrett (01:16:47.278)
The guy who led the league in save percentage missing.

Brandon Hooten (01:16:53.878)
by .7 but he did he did .8 excuse me .8 but yeah

Neil Barrett (01:16:56.462)
But he did, was number one.

Hey, you put that .01 respect on his name.

Brandon Hooten (01:17:05.392)
I am. Believe me, I have some takes on the next segment too. Don't you worry. Alright? But, Yeah, I know Jackson VanVleek was kinda going off about this. I don't think he... would have... Maybe he would have. I don't think he should have won it. I think he should be a finalist though. Because I think... And we talked about this a few weeks ago, like, he was keeping guys... or keeping his team in games.

And I told this to Hutton Jackson this morning like if you take him off of the archers They're probably winning Two games max in my mind. Yeah, like I think in my tweet I put two were under because it's like I genuinely don't know if they win games and he not only Was like okay. He was like actually good in nearly every game

Neil Barrett (01:17:42.51)
through that hole.

Brandon Hooten (01:17:54.133)
to where it was like, at least we know we have Dabur in that. So all we have to do is put up a few goals. And every time it was like the offense let him down. I think he should have been in here again, why not have four finalists here? Like I told you earlier, I think maybe it's just cause they don't want half the league to be finalists. But if you have four league goalies, why not add the four? I don't know. There's a lot of, you know, question marks.

Neil Barrett (01:18:16.3)
Yeah, I think you might be right that that's that's the the rationale. But like I told you earlier, there were four last year, like we didn't gain or lose any teams. So why were there four last year? And this year there's three when there's clearly four guys very deserving of at least being a finalist. And again, we can debate things. But but in my mind, and I don't I don't think he shouldn't be here.

But in my mind, Brett Dobson had a better case than Blaze Reardon.

Blaze Reardon got shelled several times this year.

Like I don't know why he's here and Brett Dobson isn't. It doesn't make any sense to me. And again, Blaze should be there. I'm not saying he shouldn't. Lord, Blaze, I'm not saying you shouldn't be here. Don't come for me. But I think there's a better argument that Brett should be here over Blaze. If you're sticking to this stupid arbitrary three goalie

number for no reason.

Neil Barrett (01:19:31.118)
Now that we got that out, who you taking?

Brandon Hooten (01:19:36.854)
Neil Barrett (01:19:37.55)
Is there even a doubt?

Brandon Hooten (01:19:40.638)
In my mind, not at all.

Neil Barrett (01:19:42.594)
No, no, no about who you're taking. Like, do we even need to ask the question?

Brandon Hooten (01:19:44.983)
About who's going to win? I mean, I don't think Mcnany will win. I think he absolutely should win. know, 0.8 % behind the league leader as a rookie. He went 7-1. know, percentage over expected. He was at 5%. That leads these finalists by 2%. Clean save percentage, he led the league 60.6%. That's 20 % higher than the next person, by the way.

Blaze reared in forty point three percent team clear quick clear sixty three point six percent Leads the league by another three point six percent there Also leads the league in in scores against average ten point six Look at the outlaws first two games and then look at them after they put him in the lineup. That's all I gotta say

And that man should put, he should be winning Rookie of the Year as well, while we're at

Neil Barrett (01:20:37.466)
Neil Barrett (01:20:49.814)
not sure I I think if you if you look at any

Neil Barrett (01:20:57.79)
statistical data. Logan McNaney is and should be the winner. I'm assuming you were just reading Patrick McKeever's stats, his like expanded stats. And he led, like you mentioned, by a good margin in every single advanced stat. He on every

Basic stat he is leading except for save percentage where he's whatever it is half a percentage point eight percent off of the leader He was seven and one as a starter like you said, you know

Brandon Hooten (01:21:32.534)
.8

Neil Barrett (01:21:45.312)
I want to say it will be and it should be Logan McNaney, but something's just chewing on the back of my head saying that it's going to be Liam Intamin because he just has the the name and the the

Brandon Hooten (01:21:54.718)
Yup, yup, yup.

Neil Barrett (01:22:03.682)
wagon behind him to make it happen. And I don't really understand it because I don't know. I don't know how you argue with what Logan Mcnaney did this year.

Brandon Hooten (01:22:24.341)
I know. I mean, again, like he... He was a whole 1.2 % better, save percentage-wise. Liam did have that game last week with, what, 38%, 39 %? I think McNanty's lowest was 47%. Like...

Neil Barrett (01:22:40.622)
39.

Neil Barrett (01:22:44.718)
Well, and Liam had another sub 50 game too.

Brandon Hooten (01:22:50.557)
Yeah, and don't get me wrong, like, Mcnandy had two, I think he had maybe 147 and one was like 50 or something. Like, he had two, like, down games. But I'm looking at, like, the whole body of work and the only knock I've heard all year was that, he's only played eight games. And I'm like, okay, but he was better in most of them. I mean, Blaze got shelled a couple of times. Again, I think Dauber arguably had a better year than Liam and Blaze.

Like I think realistically it should have been Logan versus Dabur, but we're not at that point unfortunately. So I know there's gonna be people that say like I'm biased, but like I also just read you like numbers and I recognize that stats lie sometimes, but you can also watch these things in action. I watched him Stonewall the New York Atlas in overtime, which led to a goal on the other end. it.

I mean, the number one offense, he held him to, I believe, 12 goals. you know, and again, like we gave props to McElroy as a rookie, like, he did this as a rookie. And again, if you watch the first two games with McElroy and Nett for the Outlaws, very different team. And what's funny is those first two weeks, all I heard was about how...

McElroy was bad and then the second that Mcnaney started dominating all of a sudden it was well the defense in front of him is really good funny how that narrative switched up isn't it all of a sudden the defense matters and now he has a good defense but when it was the other way it was just that the goalie was like come on the narrative around that was specifically frustrating for me

Neil Barrett (01:24:33.122)
Yeah, no, I get that and I agree with you. I

You just said something that sparked something in my brain and then I went to say it and it all left me.

Brandon Hooten (01:24:48.255)
think what you were gonna say was McNanny Fugoli of the Year.

Neil Barrett (01:24:52.238)
I mean, I already I already said that. I know what it was. You were talking about stats sometimes lie. And I agree with that. You can also make stats say kind of what you want them to say. But but typically that's one, maybe two, maybe three. He's leading like.

Brandon Hooten (01:25:05.813)
100%.

Neil Barrett (01:25:16.686)
10 of the 11 categories and the 11th category he's second in. It's like how many stats are lying to you? Are all of them, are all of the stats lying to us?

Brandon Hooten (01:25:29.096)
Right.

According to someone on social media, that's what I've been told.

Neil Barrett (01:25:36.59)
I really think that it comes down to, I just looked Liam Intiman in the eyes and.

I like he's staring at me now. He's like, it's kind of, the more you look at him, the more he's kind of like glaring at you. It's like, anyway, I think he, I think he has like the flashier saves this year. He has the, the sports center top 10 kind of plays. And I think that's probably playing into this like narrative that he's, he's the goalie of the year coming off of, you know, the back to back championships and

Brandon Hooten (01:25:49.205)
Ugh.

Neil Barrett (01:26:14.798)
with Notre Dame and coming in and taking the spot from a Tim Troutner that was playing very well at the start of last year. Yeah, yeah, he was an All-Star that I'm pretty sure lost his starting position the week before the All-Star game, if I remember correctly. He was not the starter at the time he was starting in the All-Star game. But either way, even if it was the week after or whatever.

Brandon Hooten (01:26:23.42)
He was an all-star that year.

Neil Barrett (01:26:42.83)
We all knew the second Liam Intamin hit the field, it was going to be his job. The only thing Tim Troutner could do was try to keep Liam Intamin off the field because the second he started, it was his position from then on. And that's what happened. And yeah, it just feels like there's this swell and like it's going to be Liam Intamin. And it shouldn't be?

Not to say that Liam hasn't been good. He deserves to be a finalist. Yeah. You know.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:14.997)
Nah, he's been good. Yeah. The other thing too is like, McNanty Average 13.6 saves a game.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:25.619)
So, I mean...

I don't know where he ranks among that,

Neil Barrett (01:27:29.016)
It's not.

Neil Barrett (01:27:33.87)
I can tell you.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:33.941)
I keep seeing people ranking like saves on their Twitter posts and I'm like, saves per game is a better metric than just saves because you could just get peppered.

Neil Barrett (01:27:47.362)
Yeah, so looks like Liam would have made, he played all 10 games, right? Yeah, so he would average 15.2.

Brandon Hooten (01:27:56.597)
15.

Does he lead then? Yeah, yeah, he has to, because Blaze has that 14.9, 14.6. So it's not like McNanny's far off on saves per game either, on top of the other numbers we mentioned.

Neil Barrett (01:28:01.782)
Yes.

Neil Barrett (01:28:13.154)
Yeah. So.

You know, it's kind of crazy to me that blaze had two 220 plus games, right? He had he had two of those

Brandon Hooten (01:28:25.119)
Uh, yeah, I think so. He had hit the 25 early on. I think he had like a 20 or something. I think he like a 21 or something later in the year.

Neil Barrett (01:28:28.142)
Yeah, the 25 for sure.

He had a 21 against the cannons and a 25 against the outlaws. And he did not lead that category. That's crazy. But he had two games below 10 and a 10 pointer. So for a 10 saver, whatever. Let's move on to...

Brandon Hooten (01:28:34.366)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:28:43.773)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:28:59.928)
Gotta find it. Attackman of the year.

Pat Kavanaugh, Brennan O'Neill, Connor Schellenberger, Michael Sowers. I'm not even sure that we need to talk about this very much because it's the exact same list for MVP.

So let's talk about these two together. First and foremost, I'm not even gonna ask your opinions. Why the hell are Pat Kavanaugh and Brennan O'Neill on this list?

Neil Barrett (01:29:41.184)
Attackment of the year fine. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not asking you I'm more or less asking the world the PLL

Brandon Hooten (01:29:41.511)
You asking me?

Brandon Hooten (01:29:50.396)
And also, you asking why are they both on here or are you asking why are either of them on here?

Neil Barrett (01:30:00.226)
I would say why for MVP, I would say why are either of them there? I'm fine with both of them being. I'm fine with this being the four attackmen of the year. That's fine. Like we said, even if even if a guy has a goal or two more than than Brennan or Pat or whatever. I'm fine with this being the four. I would say in terms of attackman of the year, I would say I don't know why we arbitrarily cut it at four.

I feel like it should be five and Jeff Teat should be there. I know that's goofy to have two players from two teams in the same five, but I just don't know how Jeff Teat is not included in this. attack for attackman of the year. for MVP I don't know why it's the same four attackman from the attackman of the year. Like, do no other positions exist? You telling me that Logan McNaney, who should be goalie of the year, wasn't

more important than Brennan O'Neill or Pat Kavanaugh?

Neil Barrett (01:31:07.768)
Graham Hasek wasn't more important than Brennan O'Neill or Pac Havana.

I just

I don't understand this MVP list at all.

I cannot believe it is the exact same list from Attackman of the Year.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:32.028)
I just disagree that there shouldn't be four attachment on it.

Brandon Hooten (01:31:38.404)
Okay, first off you mentioned Logan McNaney. That's an obvious side I've talked about that for a long time My hot take about this is why is Brett Dobson not on this list as a finalist and I fully understand that there's gonna be people that say that like team success matters Again he dragged them to four wins by himself. He led the league and saved percentage he like

He's not a goalie of the year finalist how he's not an MVP finalist. I Just don't understand it and when you already have an attackman of the year award that you're gonna give out and you say hey Here's four guys that you're all competing for this. Why are we then gonna say? Sorry Dabur. We know you we know you carry the team, but you don't get any looks. Sorry Logan You don't get any looks Like you said, I mean Haas. I mean any other guys. Sorry We're gonna bring these guys back in and as I've said numerous times now you cannot have

You can't, in my mind you cannot win MVP if you have another MVP finalist on your team. Because that means that inherently you are not the most valuable to your team because you have another guy who is quote unquote most valuable. That does not, like the definition of valuable, like that does not make any sense. Like it's gotta be one or the other. So to not have even any goalie on it is insane to me.

Neil Barrett (01:32:58.828)
Yeah, no, no, no other player being on this list is just ridiculous to me. No goalie should almost always there should there should almost always be at least one goalie on this list because because a goalie at the level of of a Brett Dobson of a blaze weird and of those guys, even if even if it's just the one those guys are

just as valuable, if not more than the attack mineral.

Brandon Hooten (01:33:32.308)
they're arguably more valuable because they can actually steal you games. Now granted, they still need an attackman to like do a little bit of their job, like, you, I mean we've seen plenty of times, right off fences that struggle because their defense and their goalie can't stop anybody. So it's like, if you like, like I remember going into like the Carolina games and being like, okay, they have to lock in cause they're playing blaze. Like he will steal games. I can't really name an attackman that I'm like, oh, he's going to go steal that game.

Neil Barrett (01:33:48.6)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:33:57.55)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:34:02.225)
Like, and that's not a knock on them, but it's just not the same.

Neil Barrett (01:34:05.838)
And to your point, Michael Sowers is an MVP candidate. Keira McCardell has been incredible all year. They got CJ Kirst clicking. They still lose games because they don't have an MVP caliber player in goal for them right now. Conversely, we watched the chaos all season long.

have nobody at attack other than occasionally Owen Hiltz.

win games because they had blaze reardon in cage making saves and keeping games close and and to your point about dauber if they have even a halfway functioning offense they're one of the best teams in the league because almost every game was within two two points

You know, they were they were consistently holding teams to 10 or less goals and losing games. That's insane.

Brandon Hooten (01:35:12.135)
Yup. Yeah. And I mean, and we haven't even mentioned a guy like Jake Piseno, who was the only runaway favorite that we had. Like, not that he would have won, because I don't think LSMs are really ever gonna win, but it's just one of those things, it's just like, not a single other position? You didn't give like, you didn't give T.D. Erlen a look? I mean, literally anybody, but whatever.

Neil Barrett (01:35:14.254)
So this is.

Neil Barrett (01:35:20.716)
Right. Right.

Neil Barrett (01:35:30.635)
Not a single other position.

Neil Barrett (01:35:35.778)
Yeah. Yeah, I thought about I thought about TD, too. Like it's it's baffling to me that that Pat Kavanaugh and Brennan O'Neill are on this list. And you know me, I'm a Brennan O'Neill guy. Like, how in the hell are these two dudes on it? And if you if you want Pat fine, he's got the numbers, I guess, to be up there towards

Brandon Hooten (01:35:49.895)
Yep, yep.

Neil Barrett (01:36:05.57)
the conversation. But why is Brandon O'Neill there?

Brandon Hooten (01:36:10.075)
I'd put Pat over Brennan if we're picking one for MVP.

Neil Barrett (01:36:13.378)
Yes, 100%. And again, I'm a Brandon O'Neill guy, but if, if one of these dudes has to be on the list, it's Pat Kavanaugh. I can, I can make the argument that Brandon O'Neill is more valuable to his team, but I think there's an element of winning the MVP award that goes with the statistics. And you can't argue with what Pat Kavanaugh accomplished on the field.

But also, like you said, how can you be the most valuable player of the league when there's another guy on your team that's like equally as valuable in the same position? It's not even like, it's not even like, well, Pat Kavanaugh is on the offensive end and Logan McNaney is on the defensive end. They play the same position.

Brandon Hooten (01:36:59.803)
Right, right and I should I should have clarified that was my gripe is that it's the same position like if you want to put two opposite ends I can totally see if you wanted to say hypothetically speaking of a Shelley and an Entenmann or a Pat Kav and Mcnaney like I can totally understand that but like You the same you play the same position like I mean, I argued this a couple years ago with the bandits I'll agree this all year with the outlaws. I agree this for the Atlas this year It just it doesn't make sense like give these guys their flowers on the attackman of the

of the year and then scrap two of them, scrap one of them, throw in a goalie or someone else.

Neil Barrett (01:37:37.112)
So obviously the question is who wins, who should win, but let's go, let's take that and add another question because we didn't talk about attackmen of the year and just say who wins, who shouldn't win. But then also based off of that, who wins attackmen of the year? Because this is often, although not always,

the player who wins MVP, the number two wins Attackman of the Year. It's like a, it's almost never the same position, at least not since, you know, Trevor won it as a face off and Blaze won it as a goalie.

Brandon Hooten (01:38:21.458)
Yeah, I think first and foremost if Dabur was here, I'm taking Dabur to win MVP. Not an option obviously, but now this is where it's gonna be kind of, I'm gonna get some flack for this, but I think Attackman of the Year goes to Shelly. I think MVP goes to Sours. If I was picking, I think Shelly ends up winning both, but I think that Sours is more valuable to his team.

than Shelly is, but I think Shelly had a better year than Sours did, which is why I'm saying Attackman goes to Shelly, MVP goes to Sours.

Neil Barrett (01:39:01.07)
But what do think will happen if Shelley had the better year and you think you think he gets MVP or

Brandon Hooten (01:39:04.882)
I think Shelly gets both. I think Shelly ends up with both. Because I think there's going to be enough people who have the argument and the thought process of, if you're the MVP that means you're the best player so you might have to win TACN of the Year as well. Or, you know, vice versa.

Neil Barrett (01:39:09.07)
Okay.

Neil Barrett (01:39:18.274)
Yeah, I'm not even saying I disagree with that as a as a concept. Like how can you be the MVP and not the best player in your own position? But I just know we have. Generally speaking, seen the MVP not win the Attackman of the Year award, so I just but it can and does happen so I.

Brandon Hooten (01:39:36.892)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:39:45.824)
I agree with you on what should happen, that it should be Sowers, MVP, Shelley, Attackman of the Year. Unless you, again, unless you think that they should win both.

Neil Barrett (01:40:05.228)
Yeah. But, I think, and I think I agree with you. I'll go. think Shelly wins MVP and Sowers wins attack minute the year. Because I, I think they're going to want to reward both of them. And you know, Sowers did have a really good year, but this is one of those ones where that argument about the PLL.

getting there guys.

Gains fuel because. Because again, why is Brennan O'Neill on this list? Why is why is Pat Kavanagh on this list? But certainly, why is Brennan O'Neill on this list? And then. You know, we're going to split this award to give two guys some attention. Rather than making it be one guy straight up and down, even though.

Brandon Hooten (01:41:05.786)
Well, and I think you could still make an argument for Brennan to be on there just because I think the impact that he has. think, again, like I've said numerous times, where it loses steam for me on that front is that your teammate is there as well. But if you watch a Brennan game, you see the way that he's affecting the defense with his gravity, which we've seen that argument for guys like Steph Curry for years. So that's where I can see him getting a nod, but not over, like we just talked about, some of the other goalies and guys in the league.

But I totally agree that I can see where you're coming from with that.

Neil Barrett (01:41:40.844)
Yeah. Well, and again, and like I said, I'm I'm a Brennan O'Neill guy and I talk on this show all the time about what I think he provides, even when he's not providing numbers on the stat sheet, like you, like you said, the gravity that, that he has that, that just pulls the defense towards him, frees up a lot of his, teammates. And I, I'm not so much against the idea of saying like,

that provides a value that, that Brennan has that a lot of other guys don't have.

I just, like you said, not over these people in other positions that are playing just crazy high level for this, know, attackment of the year, like fine, sure, I get it, but.

Yeah, I don't know. And again, again, we cut it off at four. Why? We could have put it at five. We could have put, you know, McNaney or like you said, I think Jake Piseno is a great shot. He's the only guy, like you said, when we go through this whole list where there's like, there's no argument, is Jake Piseno. He's the only one where there's no argument for that award. So, kind of a...

kind of a bummer way to end the PLL awards.

Brandon Hooten (01:43:12.07)
Yeah, but then again, I don't know if anyone was ever gonna win it over. It'll probably end up being Shelley. If I had to guess, I don't think that voters are gonna go anybody else over him, but.

Neil Barrett (01:43:26.594)
Yeah, that reminds me, I just looked it up and then I forgot who it was. I was gonna tell you who I picked. I don't know if you remember yours. I didn't write yours down, but I did write mine down.

Brandon Hooten (01:43:44.262)
my preseason picks i do remember not to be able to find on twitter to cancer from twitter for some reason what no we need to get actually on

Neil Barrett (01:43:46.029)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:43:53.806)
You

Neil Barrett (01:43:59.214)
I didn't do.

Brandon Hooten (01:43:59.282)
I I only did three positions. I didn't do like the whole, you know.

Neil Barrett (01:44:05.218)
Yeah, this is what I did. Playoff teams, California, Denver, Utah, Boston, New York, Philly. So, great.

Champion, Boston Cannons. Not great. I don't I don't think they're going to do it this year. MVP, Connor Fields.

Neil Barrett (01:44:38.576)
and rookie of the year Jackson Eicher.

Neil Barrett (01:44:45.934)
So I feel pretty good with how that pick turned out, even though it didn't, it didn't work out. Although I do, I do feel like maybe I changed it live, but I didn't write it down, but we'll run with Jackson. I, I definitely remember there was some debate about MVP and who I should pick, but I had written down Connor Fields. So was like, I'm going to ride with Connor Fields. Cause that's who I wrote down. I think

I think I wanted to go Asher though, so I'm not sure it was a much better. Well, it was better because he still finished like top six in points, but. Connor Fields wasn't even close, but where did he where did he actually end up? you know? 25th. I got it. I'm not going to lie. That's actually better than I thought it was, but that's.

Brandon Hooten (01:45:28.134)
Yeah.

Brandon Hooten (01:45:34.608)
Yeah

Neil Barrett (01:45:38.786)
That's tied with Rob Pinnell who people think should retire and Rob Pinnell only played eight games and Connor played two, or played 10, so.

Brandon Hooten (01:45:49.071)
Yep. Yeah, I took, I did MVP Rookie the Year DPOY. I had Brennan as MVP. I had Aiden Carroll Rookie the Year and I had Graham Hasek DPOY. So all finalists. so, and, and this is on my Twitter. I'm not making this up. This is, I tweeted this on May 30th. So it's, it's verifiable.

Neil Barrett (01:45:50.19)
Yeah

Neil Barrett (01:45:58.254)
Well, he's got a chance. Got a chance. Got a chance.

Not bad.

Neil Barrett (01:46:13.134)
Here's the question, did you announce any playoff teams or picks or anything?

Brandon Hooten (01:46:17.325)
I announced the champion who's going to the championship and I chose the Denver Outlaws.

Neil Barrett (01:46:24.718)
Surprise surprise

Brandon Hooten (01:46:27.653)
But that one actually legit was not a fandom thing. That was just, I really thought that Brennan was gonna like take a massive step and like lead, know, like take the team to the promised land, which in hindsight, I mean, they got the number one seed in our, know, looking good. It just happened a very different way than I thought it was going to. So.

Neil Barrett (01:46:35.106)
Take off.

Neil Barrett (01:46:46.37)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, like we like we talked about all year, like nobody thought we were getting this Pat Kavanaugh this year.

Brandon Hooten (01:46:55.831)
No, no, I felt like he'd be a good addition and then Brennan would take off and then it was kind of like, wait, you can actually like just take over the team and like, hey, Brennan, just contribute over here. And it worked. So, but yeah, I feel good about my predictions, at least being finalists. It's looking like I maybe only have a real shot at one of them being correct, but hey, I'll take it.

Neil Barrett (01:47:00.418)
Yes, for sure.

Neil Barrett (01:47:18.478)
You know, let's wrap up with with this question that came out today. You probably saw it. Adam Levi listed out the Chiefs roster, which I will get to in just a second and asked, would this team be a favorite to win the NLL championship? The roster is.

Dhane Smith, Josh Byrne, Lyle Thompson, Ian is it Mackie or McKay? It's McKay. Tim Edwards, Randy Staats Steve Priolo, Brennan Bomberry, Shane Jackson, Nonkon Nonkon? That's hard for me to say. Thompson.

Brandon Hooten (01:47:56.507)
Okay.

Brandon Hooten (01:48:10.873)
What's his last name? I can't say it. He plays for Halifax though.

Neil Barrett (01:48:15.906)
Yes, Lattrell Harris, Tyson Bell, Doug Jamison, Warren Hill, Dawson Thede, Larsen Sundown, Justin Martin, Brad Kri Matt Mariner. And that doesn't include, I'm pretty sure they have Graham Hasek.

Brandon Hooten (01:48:37.381)
Yep. Yep.

Neil Barrett (01:48:38.41)
On their roster. He hasn't played yet, but he's on the roster. I think they have

Neil Barrett (01:48:45.998)
I want to see, I was getting ready to say, I want to see Dylan Ward signed with them too. So they have a, they have a few more guys that are technically on the roster, but, let's just go with the guys mentioned. Would they be a favorite to win an NLL championship? Yes. I believe the last time I saw it, was 96 % yes on his poll.

Brandon Hooten (01:48:46.011)
Dylan Ward.

Brandon Hooten (01:48:50.363)
Yep.

Brandon Hooten (01:49:04.461)
Easily. Easily.

Neil Barrett (01:49:14.392)
Let's go a step farther.

Brandon Hooten (01:49:16.176)
Yes.

Neil Barrett (01:49:20.674)
I didn't even ask.

Brandon Hooten (01:49:21.879)
I don't need you to ask. They're winning NLL championships, PLL championships, world championships.

Neil Barrett (01:49:28.398)
That's that's what I said to I I think PLL is is also pretty likely Given this Monstars roster But I think I think like you said even even internationally we're like, you know

the US and or Canada and or the Haudenosaunee and or Australia or Israel, Japan, whoever could could pick their best of the best. And I don't think they could beat this team. This this chief's roster is insane. I don't know how they were allowed to build it. I don't know how it hasn't been a bigger problem.

for the MSL and, you know, mann cup competitions to be like, hey, why did they get to build this roster? And like, nope. mean, I guess, I guess other teams could, but like.

Can they though?

Brandon Hooten (01:50:41.231)
Yeah, I mean...

You gotta think they have like the best of the best.

Like just period so and like you gotta think if you add Graham Hossack they you have if you're playing field You have a number one defender right there You got a few guys that I think you could give them a long pull and be fine The only issue really just gonna be the goaltending isn't gonna necessary cuz I because Warren Hill I don't think plays field but The wait Warren Hill does that Jameson does not So it's like

Neil Barrett (01:51:14.072)
Yes.

And of course you could bring in Dylan Ward. I don't know that that's necessarily helpful this year compared to, you know, five years ago, but

Brandon Hooten (01:51:27.181)
Yeah, I mean, but, but if he's...

if he's playing well.

Neil Barrett (01:51:35.426)
Yes, if you get a good Dylan Ward, then yes, fantastic.

Brandon Hooten (01:51:40.089)
Right. And I recognize that that's a bit, you if, but hey.

Neil Barrett (01:51:48.514)
Yeah, I mean this

This roster is crazy and I don't want to be that dude, but I just every time I see it, I cannot believe that no one's like, hey, can we do something about this? Because this is ridiculous.

Brandon Hooten (01:52:05.957)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:52:09.314)
I mean, just just the first three names I mentioned. Dhane Smith, Josh Byrne, Lyle Thompson. Like what? That's what. Five NLL MVPs between them.

Brandon Hooten (01:52:16.612)
You're scoring every time. Every time.

Brandon Hooten (01:52:27.64)
I lost count, it's a lot.

Neil Barrett (01:52:29.9)
Yeah, it's like.

Brandon Hooten (01:52:31.22)
I Dhane and Josh have the last two or three. So whatever else Lyle has on top of that.

Neil Barrett (01:52:38.574)
think Lyle had the 2016 I think?

Neil Barrett (01:52:47.438)
Man, Lyle is 32. That makes me feel old as hell. 27. Oh, that's championship. Oh yeah. Okay. So in 2017, he won the NLL MVP, the NLL championship MVP and the NLL championship.

Neil Barrett (01:53:07.315)
And not for nothing, but he should have had a PLL MVP as well.

Neil Barrett (01:53:14.716)
and he does have an NLL MVP, I mean, from 2019. That's kind of, you know, whatever. I didn't even think about including box championships or I mean, field MVPs. You'd have another couple there, too, right? No, you wouldn't.

Brandon Hooten (01:53:35.056)
I so. Well, actually, I don't, I haven't looked, so I have no idea, but either way, no.

Neil Barrett (01:53:39.618)
Dhane never won one.

But if you include positional awards, I'm pretty sure Dhane has a midfielder of the year and Lyle has an attackman of the year. So. Like, yeah, you can. They start pack and countless, countless in LL championships on that roster, too. and we didn't even talk about their coaching roster, their coaching roster is just as ridiculous. So. You know.

Brandon Hooten (01:53:53.838)
Yeah, they're winning everything.

Brandon Hooten (01:54:05.243)
yeah. Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:54:12.856)
They're crazy. And again, I don't know. I don't know how they, I don't want us to get away with it, but like, how does no one like, Hey, hold on just a second.

Brandon Hooten (01:54:22.768)
because other teams just trade their rights away. Like here you go. Here's a gift. Those cash considerations, man, they must be, must be pretty hefty.

Neil Barrett (01:54:29.923)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:54:34.338)
Well, I know like Victoria, the Shamrocks have built a pretty good roster, it's like a very, yeah, well, it's like a very good roster, but it ain't, I mean, this is, again, this is Space Jam's Monstars over here. Like, this is ridiculous. So.

Brandon Hooten (01:54:40.176)
They just got eliminated too.

Brandon Hooten (01:54:49.198)
Yeah. I mean, they just beat Peterborough the other night, game one of the finals by like five goals. Granted Nick, Nick Rose, I don't think played, but still like.

Insane.

Neil Barrett (01:55:03.886)
All right, well, that is all we have for today. What what you got coming up this weekend?

Brandon Hooten (01:55:13.84)
Absolutely nothing right now.

Neil Barrett (01:55:16.92)
Just sitting at home watching lacrosse.

Brandon Hooten (01:55:18.874)
Yep, yep, I have nothing scheduled to shoot. As of now, I don't think there's any soccer right now. Football season starts up here in a couple weeks, so once that starts, I'll have that kind of every week, but.

Neil Barrett (01:55:29.038)
now.

Brandon Hooten (01:55:33.028)
Nothing else for now.

Neil Barrett (01:55:34.712)
My, my mom's coming in this weekend. She's, it's her first time. It's her first time up here, period, but her first time visiting me obviously since we moved here, two years ago. So that's going to be, she'll be here for a week. So that'll be fun. I guess, but, yeah, that's kind of what I'm doing. And then I got, you know, I'm gonna try and catch these games. I was really wanting to go out there, but Minnesota is a trek.

Brandon Hooten (01:55:45.36)
Very nice.

Brandon Hooten (01:55:51.534)
Yeah.

Neil Barrett (01:56:05.186)
I'm not sure I'm going to make any of the playoff games, but Minnesota is a trek. So anyway, with that being said, we will get out of here. As always, I can be found at I am Neil Barrett on Twitter X, whatever you want to call it. And Instagram Brandon is at Hoot Sports Media on Twitter and Instagram. And the show is at run out pod on Twitter and Instagram. Definitely hit us up.

Let us know what you liked, what you didn't like. We were supposed to do a mailbag this week and I completely forgot, which is fine because this has been almost two hours. We didn't need to fill the time, but we will do a mailbag at some point in the not so distant future when we have perhaps a few less things to talk about. Maybe maybe championship weekend or something. I don't know. I don't want to put it out there because then I'll just screw it up again like I did this week. I just completely forgot to even mention it and put it out there. So.

With all of that being said, again, we are going to get out of here. Have a good week and we will, as always, catch you in the comments.